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#1 lukemos

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:05 PM

Hello all,

I come to you tonight to clear the air, set the facts down, and apologize for conduct unbecoming of BAPS . Several weeks ago, Bobery, then a member of ACDC quit, proceeded to join BAPS, take one of our guides, and leave to rejoin ACDC. ACDC Statement on said issue. This issue was resolved with a rep's payment and the expulsion of this member. The member in question, Bobery, was a senator on the black team, and still is. After his expulsion he was sentenced to ZI by BAPS. Despite this he tried to rejoin BAPS. A member of ours, and friend of Bobery's, was under the misguided impression that he would be allowed to rejoin. He was mistaken. Due to his antics earlier, there was no way Bobery would be allowed back in BAPS.

Bobery came under attack by 1 BAPS nation, and 1 Elysium nation. The BAPS nation for obvious reasons of following through with the ZI sentence handed out. The Elysium nation, who was the first attacker, tried to extort tech and a trade from the senator. Tumin, the MoFA of BAPS, had been in contact with Bobery, trying to prevent him from going rogue and sanctioning people on his way out. Through this contact he found out of Elysium's demands. He then proceeded to track them down and attempt to deliver a warning that this senator was still in power, but not affiliated with anyone, and on BAPSs' ZI list, and thus had nothing to lose. Here is where the first wrong was committed. Tumin attempted to conduct his warnings in public. He said that it would be best for Elysium to drop their demands and just leave Bobery alone and let BAPS deal with it.

I will not hesitate to admit that Tumin mishandled this situation, and badly. However, I must reiterate that he was only attempting to PREVENT what he knew Bobery was going to do, which was sanction Elysium. After he left the Elysium channel and told Bobery, who he was in contact with, that Elysium wasn't going to drop it, Bobery followed through and sanctioned 3 Elysium members. This happened rather soon after Tumin left. As the logs below will show, Tumin, whilst doing a bad job of it, was indeed trying to warn Elysium off and let BAPS deal with it themselves.

[16:25] <mhawk> what is up tumin
[16:25] <Tumin[BAPS]> Just curious whats going on with you and Bobery?
[16:25] <mhawk> alittle love dance
[16:26] <Tumin[BAPS]> I wasn't aware we had an MADP with Elysium.
[16:26] <Tumin[BAPS]> smile.gif
[16:26] <mhawk> acta non verba
[16:26] <Tumin[BAPS]> I'm curious what your CB is?
[16:26] <Beernuts> Justice has an MADP when Elysium gets involved
[16:26] <Tumin[BAPS]> Justice?
[16:26] <Tumin[BAPS]> We took care of that ourselves.
[16:27] <Tumin[BAPS]> We don't need Elysium butting into our business, we can take care of things, I'm afraid.
[16:27] <Tumin[BAPS]> Thats why we negotiated reps ourselves.
[16:27] <Tumin[BAPS]> And I'm just not sure where you folks fit in.
[16:27] <mhawk> perhaps we say the same to baps
[16:27] <Tumin[BAPS]> Hm?
[16:28] <mhawk> We don't need BAPS butting into our business, we can take care of things, I'm afraid
[16:28] <Tumin[BAPS]> Ah, but when you attack someone and begin extorting them for tech and trades under the veil of "helping BAPS", I have a problem.
[16:28] <mhawk> when did I say helping baps sir
[16:28] <Beernuts> who's helping baps?
[16:29] <mhawk> my concern from the beginning has been he is a senator
[16:29] <mhawk> that is in deep!@#$ from the looks of it
[16:29] <Tumin[BAPS]> So you've declared simply to oust him from the senate?
[16:29] <mhawk> that concerns all of black team sir
[16:29] <Tumin[BAPS]> Then I shall change my wording.
[16:29] <Tumin[BAPS]> You're causing problems on black by attacking a senator and threatening him.
[16:29] <Tumin[BAPS]> He had NO reason to sanction Elysium before you stuck your fingers into things.
[16:29] <Tumin[BAPS]> And you're just muddling in things to your own advantage
[16:29] <Beernuts> are you threatening us with a sanction?
[16:30] <Tumin[BAPS]> Did I ever say that?
[16:30] <Tumin[BAPS]> I'm saying you gave him a reason to sanction you, under the pretense of not getting sanctioned.
[16:30] <Tumin[BAPS]> Your actions make no sense at all.
[16:30] <Tumin[BAPS]> And because, honestly, BAPS is interested in black stability, particularly in the senate, I have an issue with this.
[16:31] <Tumin[BAPS]> If anyone, BAPS should be concerned with being sanctioned, however I have worked with Bobery to resolve this issue without that coming up.
[16:31] <Beernuts> I can't talk for hawk or this alliance, but I'm interested in black stability, and an ousted senator does not promote that end
[16:31] <Tumin[BAPS]> Ousted?
[16:31] <Tumin[BAPS]> Explain.
[16:31] <mhawk> ok tumin
[16:31] <Tumin[BAPS]> BAPS NEVER asked for his removal from ACDC.
[16:31] <mhawk> did he spy on you?
[16:31] <Tumin[BAPS]> Mhawk, that issue is resolved.
[16:31] <Tumin[BAPS]> We have talked with NADC, terms have been set.
[16:32] <mhawk> interesting
[16:32] <Tumin[BAPS]> You have said your issue with him is unrelated.
[16:32] <mhawk> so have I
[16:32] <Tumin[BAPS]> Congratulations. Did he spy on you too?
[16:32] <Tumin[BAPS]> I'm curious what he's done to Elysium.
[16:32] <Tumin[BAPS]> Besides being a senator.
[16:33] <mhawk> that sir concerns us all
[16:33] <Tumin[BAPS]> No, it doesn't.
[16:33] <Tumin[BAPS]> Because I spoke to him.
[16:33] <Tumin[BAPS]> And arranged for him to exit the senate peacefully.
[16:33] <mhawk> whoa re you to tell me what concerns us?
[16:33] <Tumin[BAPS]> And then you go and declare war, threaten him, and endanger the entire black team's senate stability.
[16:33] <Tumin[BAPS]> You spoke for "us all"
[16:34] <Tumin[BAPS]> BAPs represents black FAR more then Elysium, I'm afraid.
[16:34] <mhawk> let me rephrase
[16:34] <mhawk> what are you going to do about it
[16:34] <Tumin[BAPS]> Haha. Its not up to me.
[16:34] <Tumin[BAPS]> Its up to Bobery.
[16:34] <Tumin[BAPS]> I have no control over him.
[16:34] <Tumin[BAPS]> But you're making things chaotic.
[16:35] <Tumin[BAPS]> And if you start a sanction war, well, thats a problem.
[16:35] <mhawk> how am I to start a sanction war
[16:35] <Tumin[BAPS]> By demanding tech and trades from a senator who has nothing to lose, and giving him every incentive to take exactly the action you have told him you are taking "down payment" to prevent.
[16:36] <mhawk> are you aware those terms were changed
[16:36] <mhawk> and re offered to us
[16:36] <Tumin[BAPS]> I'm sorry, by who? By Bobery?
[16:36] <mhawk> well lets get it straight
[16:36] <mhawk> I was willing to work with him
[16:36] <Tumin[BAPS]> Work with him?
[16:36] <mhawk> then I was given lie after lie
[16:37] <Tumin[BAPS]> You weren't even involved with the entire issue.
[16:37] <Tumin[BAPS]> Where does Elysium come in?
[16:39] <mhawk> It comes in when we see a possible threat to stability and we decide to act within our rights as a sovereign entity to do whatever is within our grasps to correct said situation
[16:40] <Tumin[BAPS]> How is getting 150 tech and a trade "correcting" a senator who intended to simply end his term without doing anything?
[16:40] <mhawk> those terms were changed
[16:40] <Tumin[BAPS]> To?
[16:40] <mhawk> those are for the concerned parties
[16:41] <Tumin[BAPS]> I'm sorry, BAPS has become a concerned party, because of your shenanigans.
[16:41] <Beernuts> ooh, shenanigans, that sounds serious
[16:41] <Tumin[BAPS]> When Bobery comes to me, a black senator who I negotiated peaceful terms with, and says "Elysium is extorting me", I get involved.
[16:42] <Tumin[BAPS]> My advice to you is to simply offer him peace and remove yourself from this entire situation.
[16:42] <mhawk> well you're making it quite a bit harder to negotiate on this front arnt you
[16:42] <mhawk> starting in private might have been a wise move
[16:42] <Tumin[BAPS]> Negotiate?
[16:42] <Tumin[BAPS]> Nah.
[16:42] <Tumin[BAPS]> I'm just telling you my thoughts.
[16:43] <mhawk> once again
[16:43] <mhawk> what are you going to do
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> Yet again.
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> Its not what I'm afraid BAPS will do.
[16:43] <BobSanders> So is !@#$@#$ will valhalla protectorates official BAPS policy
[16:43] <mhawk> your tact as a polititian is inspiring
[16:43] <BobSanders> ?
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> Its what I'm afraid a senator put between a rock and a hard place will do.
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> !@#$@#$ with?
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> When did I $%&@ with you?
[16:43] <Kryievla[Val]> I was wondering that as well.
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> You $%&@ed with Bobery.
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> Who is a black team senator.
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> This $%&@s with BAPS.
[16:43] <Beernuts> well, calling my consul's acts shenanigans certainly isn't respectful to say the least
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> So, don't $%&@ with me, I don't $%&@ with you.
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> Shenanigans is such an offensive term, I know.
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> sad.gif
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> I mean, honestly?
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> My real title is Minsiter of External Shenanigans.
[16:44] <Beernuts> it's not a respectful term, which would have helped your cause more I suspect?
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> so I find it more than appropriate.
[16:44] <mhawk> as I said tumin
[16:44] <mhawk> we are doing what we feel needs to be done
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> And I'm telling you.
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> :/
[16:44] <mhawk> I'm sorry you feel it "$%&@s" with baps
[16:45] <mhawk> but until you bring something more than petty insults to the table, have fun trying to get me to change my mind
[16:46] <Tumin[BAPS]> Bob, I haven't told you what to do.
[16:46] <Tumin[BAPS]> I've told you what you're doing.
[16:46] <Tumin[BAPS]> Which is !@#$@#$ with the senate.
[16:46] <King_Srqt[TORN|MoW]> Im pretty sure your telling them what to do
[16:46] <Tumin[BAPS]> [16:42] <Tumin[BAPS]> My advice to you is to simply offer him peace and remove yourself from this entire situation.
[16:47] <Beernuts> you made your suggestion, we heard it, I'd say diplomacy has won here today
[16:47] <Tumin[BAPS]> Well, I hope you enjoy the fruits of your labors.
[16:47] <Tumin[BAPS]> Ttyl!
Session Close: Sat Jan 05 16:47:41 2008


Now, as can be seen by those logs, Tumin repeatedly says he's just trying to warn Elysium, and knows that Bobery will sanction them otherwise. Due to his tact (or massive lack thereof) Tumin has been relieved of his position as MoFA. BAPS in no way endorses talking to foreign dignitaries in this fashion. It was unbecoming and well, disgusting. I apologize deeply that Elysium was forced to have this happen in their public channel. A simple query with Tumin voicing his concerns that Bobery may go rogue and sanction Elysium, and its up to them if they continue or not, would have sufficed far more than the above 'dialogue'. After these chats, Tumin relayed the fact that Elysium was not going to back down from their demands, to Bobery. As a result, 3 Elysium nations were sanctioned. On Behalf of BAPS I would like to extend my deepest apologies that we could not prevent this from happening, and as a token of goodwill an offer of 3M to each Elysium nation, from BAPs to help pay their bills while they re-establish trades, will be offered.

This is not an admission of guilt on behalf of BAPS. We have no control over Bobery and his actions. These sanctions are the result of a dispute between Elysium and Bobery, something we do not have any control over, should not have been involved in, other than to simply say Bobery would likely sanction Elysium if they didn't retract it. So again, we apologize for the way it was handled, but we were just trying to do the right thing in warning Elysium.

EDIT : It has recently come to our attention that there are a new set of MSN logs doing the rounds, which purport to contradict the above story. We have not seen the logs in their entirety, merely a snippet. However, based on that snippet alone, we believe that we can show that the logs are in fact faked. However that is impossible at this stage, as the persons in possessions of said logs refuse to hand them over in their entirety.


Signed,
moshea
El Presidente d. BAPS.


EDIT: -REQUEST MOD LOCK-

Edited by lukemos, 08 January 2008 - 01:50 PM.


#2 C4talyst

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:06 PM

B)

I don't see logs...only text encapsulated in QUOTE tags...

Also the BAPS nation that attacked Bobery is a friend of his and did so to fill a war slot.

Edited by C4talyst, 06 January 2008 - 10:10 PM.


#3 threefingeredguy

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:08 PM

TUMIN :(
You have my heart
never be torn apart

#4 AirMe

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:08 PM

No Mushroom Kingdom members other than Trace or Archon are allowed to post in this thread. Infact....I should go punish myself now D:

#5 Trouble Terrible

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:11 PM

A very just move from BAPS who have clearly only ever been trying to resolve the situation with the interests of the entire black team at heart.

#6 noWedge

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:12 PM

hahahaha

BAPS.. come out to plaaaaayy

BAAAAPS.. come out to plaaaaayyyaayy

#7 Slayer99

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:13 PM

BAPS is like a kid who has been caught repeatedly with their hands in the candy jar. At some point just telling them their behavior isn't acceptable isn't enough...you need to take them out behind the woodshed and kick their butts.

#8 chefjoe

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:14 PM

Nowhere to run, baby, nowhere to hide
Got nowhere to run to, baby, nowhere to hide

It's not love I'm running from
It's the heartbreak I know will come
Cause I know you're no good for me
But you've become a part of me
Everywhere I go, your face I see
Every step I take you take with me

Nowhere to run, baby, nowhere to hide
Got nowhere to run to, baby, nowhere to hide

lol BAPS

#9 mhawk

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:14 PM

This is a most fatal mistake to distort facts and hide what you guys were really up to.

#10 V The King

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:14 PM

The situation is rather odd, specially when taking into account the last part. Nevertheless, good luck to BAPS and the whole Black Team.

Also, no TOP members are allowed to refrain from posting. :v:

Edited by V The King, 06 January 2008 - 10:16 PM.


#11 threefingeredguy

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:16 PM

BAPS is like a kid who has been caught repeatedly with their hands in the candy jar. At some point just telling them their behavior isn't acceptable isn't enough...you need to take them out behind the woodshed and kick their butts.

They've admitted it was just a mishandled incident. They had Elysium's best interest at heart, Tumin just didn't handle it correctly. There's no reason to claim that BAPS is misbehaving when they weren't doing anything of the sort and when it was just one person.

#12 trepidation

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:18 PM

It's too bad this situation played out as it has, but BAPS is a good group of people who can handle this. :)

#13 MaoKhan

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:18 PM

good luck to BAPS in resolving this matter

#14 C4talyst

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:18 PM

They've admitted it was just a mishandled incident. They had Elysium's best interest at heart, Tumin just didn't handle it correctly. There's no reason to claim that BAPS is misbehaving when they weren't doing anything of the sort and when it was just one person.


If this were the truth, I would be inclined to agree with you.

Edited by C4talyst, 06 January 2008 - 10:20 PM.


#15 Turkey

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:19 PM

A very nice try by BAPS at spin; however, it seems fairly irrelevant from where I'm sitting. Your MoFA with the backing of your government came into our channel and started swearing at us telling us we're "doing it wrong". He did not try and warn us of a sanction, he tried to push us around even though he had nothing to do with the current situation.

It's humorous how you guys can show grave concern for this senator going rogue, but when we do, it's extortion. The fact that he went rogue is PROOF that our concerns for black team stability were justified.

Nice try BAPS.

Turkimus Prime (Beernuts), Tribunis Maximus

ETA: Hey BAPS, I like how you cut off the opening part where I specifically recommended Tumin query MHawk privately. :rolleyes:

Edited by Turkey, 06 January 2008 - 10:23 PM.


#16 Kroknia

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:20 PM

Good luck BAPS. You seem like responsible people.

Edited by Kroknia, 06 January 2008 - 10:23 PM.


#17 Trouble Terrible

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:22 PM

Your MoFA with the backing of your government came into our channel and started swearing at us telling us we're "doing it wrong".


Clearly he didn't have the backing of the BAPS gov't, since he was removed from office as a result of it. :S

1. BAPS' MoFA screws up, and badly.
2. BAPS' apologizes, removes him from office, and offers 3m to any nations that were affected as a result.

Edited by Trouble Terrible, 06 January 2008 - 10:23 PM.


#18 ayrrie

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:22 PM

Amusing...but not amusing enough.

Try again.

#19 threefingeredguy

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:23 PM

A very nice try by BAPS at spin; however, it seems fairly irrelevant from where I'm sitting. Your MoFA with the backing of your government came into our channel and started swearing at us telling us we're "doing it wrong". He did not try and warn us of a sanction, he tried to push us around even though he had nothing to do with the current situation.

It's humorous how you guys can show grave concern for this senator going rogue, but when we do, it's extortion. The fact that he went rogue is PROOF that our concerns for black team stability were justified.

Nice try BAPS.

Turkimus Prime (Beernuts), Tribunis Maximus

So black and white logs are spin now? I see Tumin attempting to warn you that sanctions may happen. He may not have expressed it as gracefully as he should have, but I can't see why you'd deny that he tried to warn you.

I'm sorry that this had to happen as now the CN propaganda machine is going to turn it's eye to BAPS. Stick to the truth BAPS, people can't deny facts forever.

#20 C4talyst

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 10:23 PM

Clearly he didn't have the backing of the BAPS gov't, since he was removed from office as a result of it. :S

Dude, you really fall for that stuff?




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