I come to you tonight to clear the air, set the facts down, and apologize for conduct unbecoming of BAPS . Several weeks ago, Bobery, then a member of ACDC quit, proceeded to join BAPS, take one of our guides, and leave to rejoin ACDC. ACDC Statement on said issue. This issue was resolved with a rep's payment and the expulsion of this member. The member in question, Bobery, was a senator on the black team, and still is. After his expulsion he was sentenced to ZI by BAPS. Despite this he tried to rejoin BAPS. A member of ours, and friend of Bobery's, was under the misguided impression that he would be allowed to rejoin. He was mistaken. Due to his antics earlier, there was no way Bobery would be allowed back in BAPS.
Bobery came under attack by 1 BAPS nation, and 1 Elysium nation. The BAPS nation for obvious reasons of following through with the ZI sentence handed out. The Elysium nation, who was the first attacker, tried to extort tech and a trade from the senator. Tumin, the MoFA of BAPS, had been in contact with Bobery, trying to prevent him from going rogue and sanctioning people on his way out. Through this contact he found out of Elysium's demands. He then proceeded to track them down and attempt to deliver a warning that this senator was still in power, but not affiliated with anyone, and on BAPSs' ZI list, and thus had nothing to lose. Here is where the first wrong was committed. Tumin attempted to conduct his warnings in public. He said that it would be best for Elysium to drop their demands and just leave Bobery alone and let BAPS deal with it.
I will not hesitate to admit that Tumin mishandled this situation, and badly. However, I must reiterate that he was only attempting to PREVENT what he knew Bobery was going to do, which was sanction Elysium. After he left the Elysium channel and told Bobery, who he was in contact with, that Elysium wasn't going to drop it, Bobery followed through and sanctioned 3 Elysium members. This happened rather soon after Tumin left. As the logs below will show, Tumin, whilst doing a bad job of it, was indeed trying to warn Elysium off and let BAPS deal with it themselves.
[16:25] <mhawk> what is up tumin
[16:25] <Tumin[BAPS]> Just curious whats going on with you and Bobery?
[16:25] <mhawk> alittle love dance
[16:26] <Tumin[BAPS]> I wasn't aware we had an MADP with Elysium.
[16:26] <Tumin[BAPS]> smile.gif
[16:26] <mhawk> acta non verba
[16:26] <Tumin[BAPS]> I'm curious what your CB is?
[16:26] <Beernuts> Justice has an MADP when Elysium gets involved
[16:26] <Tumin[BAPS]> Justice?
[16:26] <Tumin[BAPS]> We took care of that ourselves.
[16:27] <Tumin[BAPS]> We don't need Elysium butting into our business, we can take care of things, I'm afraid.
[16:27] <Tumin[BAPS]> Thats why we negotiated reps ourselves.
[16:27] <Tumin[BAPS]> And I'm just not sure where you folks fit in.
[16:27] <mhawk> perhaps we say the same to baps
[16:27] <Tumin[BAPS]> Hm?
[16:28] <mhawk> We don't need BAPS butting into our business, we can take care of things, I'm afraid
[16:28] <Tumin[BAPS]> Ah, but when you attack someone and begin extorting them for tech and trades under the veil of "helping BAPS", I have a problem.
[16:28] <mhawk> when did I say helping baps sir
[16:28] <Beernuts> who's helping baps?
[16:29] <mhawk> my concern from the beginning has been he is a senator
[16:29] <mhawk> that is in deep!@#$ from the looks of it
[16:29] <Tumin[BAPS]> So you've declared simply to oust him from the senate?
[16:29] <mhawk> that concerns all of black team sir
[16:29] <Tumin[BAPS]> Then I shall change my wording.
[16:29] <Tumin[BAPS]> You're causing problems on black by attacking a senator and threatening him.
[16:29] <Tumin[BAPS]> He had NO reason to sanction Elysium before you stuck your fingers into things.
[16:29] <Tumin[BAPS]> And you're just muddling in things to your own advantage
[16:29] <Beernuts> are you threatening us with a sanction?
[16:30] <Tumin[BAPS]> Did I ever say that?
[16:30] <Tumin[BAPS]> I'm saying you gave him a reason to sanction you, under the pretense of not getting sanctioned.
[16:30] <Tumin[BAPS]> Your actions make no sense at all.
[16:30] <Tumin[BAPS]> And because, honestly, BAPS is interested in black stability, particularly in the senate, I have an issue with this.
[16:31] <Tumin[BAPS]> If anyone, BAPS should be concerned with being sanctioned, however I have worked with Bobery to resolve this issue without that coming up.
[16:31] <Beernuts> I can't talk for hawk or this alliance, but I'm interested in black stability, and an ousted senator does not promote that end
[16:31] <Tumin[BAPS]> Ousted?
[16:31] <Tumin[BAPS]> Explain.
[16:31] <mhawk> ok tumin
[16:31] <Tumin[BAPS]> BAPS NEVER asked for his removal from ACDC.
[16:31] <mhawk> did he spy on you?
[16:31] <Tumin[BAPS]> Mhawk, that issue is resolved.
[16:31] <Tumin[BAPS]> We have talked with NADC, terms have been set.
[16:32] <mhawk> interesting
[16:32] <Tumin[BAPS]> You have said your issue with him is unrelated.
[16:32] <mhawk> so have I
[16:32] <Tumin[BAPS]> Congratulations. Did he spy on you too?
[16:32] <Tumin[BAPS]> I'm curious what he's done to Elysium.
[16:32] <Tumin[BAPS]> Besides being a senator.
[16:33] <mhawk> that sir concerns us all
[16:33] <Tumin[BAPS]> No, it doesn't.
[16:33] <Tumin[BAPS]> Because I spoke to him.
[16:33] <Tumin[BAPS]> And arranged for him to exit the senate peacefully.
[16:33] <mhawk> whoa re you to tell me what concerns us?
[16:33] <Tumin[BAPS]> And then you go and declare war, threaten him, and endanger the entire black team's senate stability.
[16:33] <Tumin[BAPS]> You spoke for "us all"
[16:34] <Tumin[BAPS]> BAPs represents black FAR more then Elysium, I'm afraid.
[16:34] <mhawk> let me rephrase
[16:34] <mhawk> what are you going to do about it
[16:34] <Tumin[BAPS]> Haha. Its not up to me.
[16:34] <Tumin[BAPS]> Its up to Bobery.
[16:34] <Tumin[BAPS]> I have no control over him.
[16:34] <Tumin[BAPS]> But you're making things chaotic.
[16:35] <Tumin[BAPS]> And if you start a sanction war, well, thats a problem.
[16:35] <mhawk> how am I to start a sanction war
[16:35] <Tumin[BAPS]> By demanding tech and trades from a senator who has nothing to lose, and giving him every incentive to take exactly the action you have told him you are taking "down payment" to prevent.
[16:36] <mhawk> are you aware those terms were changed
[16:36] <mhawk> and re offered to us
[16:36] <Tumin[BAPS]> I'm sorry, by who? By Bobery?
[16:36] <mhawk> well lets get it straight
[16:36] <mhawk> I was willing to work with him
[16:36] <Tumin[BAPS]> Work with him?
[16:36] <mhawk> then I was given lie after lie
[16:37] <Tumin[BAPS]> You weren't even involved with the entire issue.
[16:37] <Tumin[BAPS]> Where does Elysium come in?
[16:39] <mhawk> It comes in when we see a possible threat to stability and we decide to act within our rights as a sovereign entity to do whatever is within our grasps to correct said situation
[16:40] <Tumin[BAPS]> How is getting 150 tech and a trade "correcting" a senator who intended to simply end his term without doing anything?
[16:40] <mhawk> those terms were changed
[16:40] <Tumin[BAPS]> To?
[16:40] <mhawk> those are for the concerned parties
[16:41] <Tumin[BAPS]> I'm sorry, BAPS has become a concerned party, because of your shenanigans.
[16:41] <Beernuts> ooh, shenanigans, that sounds serious
[16:41] <Tumin[BAPS]> When Bobery comes to me, a black senator who I negotiated peaceful terms with, and says "Elysium is extorting me", I get involved.
[16:42] <Tumin[BAPS]> My advice to you is to simply offer him peace and remove yourself from this entire situation.
[16:42] <mhawk> well you're making it quite a bit harder to negotiate on this front arnt you
[16:42] <mhawk> starting in private might have been a wise move
[16:42] <Tumin[BAPS]> Negotiate?
[16:42] <Tumin[BAPS]> Nah.
[16:42] <Tumin[BAPS]> I'm just telling you my thoughts.
[16:43] <mhawk> once again
[16:43] <mhawk> what are you going to do
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> Yet again.
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> Its not what I'm afraid BAPS will do.
[16:43] <BobSanders> So is !@#$@#$ will valhalla protectorates official BAPS policy
[16:43] <mhawk> your tact as a polititian is inspiring
[16:43] <BobSanders> ?
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> Its what I'm afraid a senator put between a rock and a hard place will do.
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> !@#$@#$ with?
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> When did I $%&@ with you?
[16:43] <Kryievla[Val]> I was wondering that as well.
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> You $%&@ed with Bobery.
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> Who is a black team senator.
[16:43] <Tumin[BAPS]> This $%&@s with BAPS.
[16:43] <Beernuts> well, calling my consul's acts shenanigans certainly isn't respectful to say the least
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> So, don't $%&@ with me, I don't $%&@ with you.
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> Shenanigans is such an offensive term, I know.
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> sad.gif
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> I mean, honestly?
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> My real title is Minsiter of External Shenanigans.
[16:44] <Beernuts> it's not a respectful term, which would have helped your cause more I suspect?
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> so I find it more than appropriate.
[16:44] <mhawk> as I said tumin
[16:44] <mhawk> we are doing what we feel needs to be done
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> And I'm telling you.
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!
[16:44] <Tumin[BAPS]> :/
[16:44] <mhawk> I'm sorry you feel it "$%&@s" with baps
[16:45] <mhawk> but until you bring something more than petty insults to the table, have fun trying to get me to change my mind
[16:46] <Tumin[BAPS]> Bob, I haven't told you what to do.
[16:46] <Tumin[BAPS]> I've told you what you're doing.
[16:46] <Tumin[BAPS]> Which is !@#$@#$ with the senate.
[16:46] <King_Srqt[TORN|MoW]> Im pretty sure your telling them what to do
[16:46] <Tumin[BAPS]> [16:42] <Tumin[BAPS]> My advice to you is to simply offer him peace and remove yourself from this entire situation.
[16:47] <Beernuts> you made your suggestion, we heard it, I'd say diplomacy has won here today
[16:47] <Tumin[BAPS]> Well, I hope you enjoy the fruits of your labors.
[16:47] <Tumin[BAPS]> Ttyl!
Session Close: Sat Jan 05 16:47:41 2008
Now, as can be seen by those logs, Tumin repeatedly says he's just trying to warn Elysium, and knows that Bobery will sanction them otherwise. Due to his tact (or massive lack thereof) Tumin has been relieved of his position as MoFA. BAPS in no way endorses talking to foreign dignitaries in this fashion. It was unbecoming and well, disgusting. I apologize deeply that Elysium was forced to have this happen in their public channel. A simple query with Tumin voicing his concerns that Bobery may go rogue and sanction Elysium, and its up to them if they continue or not, would have sufficed far more than the above 'dialogue'. After these chats, Tumin relayed the fact that Elysium was not going to back down from their demands, to Bobery. As a result, 3 Elysium nations were sanctioned. On Behalf of BAPS I would like to extend my deepest apologies that we could not prevent this from happening, and as a token of goodwill an offer of 3M to each Elysium nation, from BAPs to help pay their bills while they re-establish trades, will be offered.
This is not an admission of guilt on behalf of BAPS. We have no control over Bobery and his actions. These sanctions are the result of a dispute between Elysium and Bobery, something we do not have any control over, should not have been involved in, other than to simply say Bobery would likely sanction Elysium if they didn't retract it. So again, we apologize for the way it was handled, but we were just trying to do the right thing in warning Elysium.
EDIT : It has recently come to our attention that there are a new set of MSN logs doing the rounds, which purport to contradict the above story. We have not seen the logs in their entirety, merely a snippet. However, based on that snippet alone, we believe that we can show that the logs are in fact faked. However that is impossible at this stage, as the persons in possessions of said logs refuse to hand them over in their entirety.
El Presidente d. BAPS.
EDIT: -REQUEST MOD LOCK-
Edited by lukemos, 08 January 2008 - 01:50 PM.