101 replies to this topic

[Hereno]

I'm interesting in talking about an issue that I don't think we've seen in a while - capital punishment. I used to be very much against it, but honestly as of late I'm starting to change my mind on this a bit. My logic is a bit simple and crude, but it is essentially nihilistic in nature. If there isn't any real intrinsic value to life, and morality is pretty much a subjective matter, why should our society bother reducing the living standards of all of us and pay to house and feed people who rape children or want to see our lives ended? What, exactly, is so noble and honorable about having mercy on serial killers when that money could instead go to helping malnourished children or advancing science and technology, or some other much more noble cause?

 

There are arguments about things like it costing so much money to kill people on death row (even more than keeping them alive), and other arguments about how minorities tend to be hit the most with death sentences, and I'll address these both really quick right now. For the former, we simply kill them in a cheaper way and shut down the private prison system that is costing us out our asses for sub-par work. For the latter, I don't support racism in the justice system and so I don't really see why this matters. In short, both of these arguments tend to address !@#$ that I agree is also a problem that should be rectified if we're going to have capital punishment in a truly efficient way.

 

Okay, have fun voting and let the !@#$-flinging begin.

[Isaac MatthewII]

Personally I dislike any form of capital punishment, I don't see it as mans right (including the government) to remove a person from the Earth. But in the case of self preservation or saving lives and taxpayer dollars for the more severe offenders (IE option 2) I am more willing to accept it as an option.

[Helbrecht]

Some of the options in the poll are sarcastic to the point of being facile. You too, Hereno?

 

As for the subject itself, i have often found myself wondering the intent beind having the capital punishment available in the arsenal of the judicial system. Is it intended to purge the society of the really vicious and condemnable types, or is it intended to provide the rest of us a sense of satisfaction and vindication?

 

OR

 

Regardless of what it is intended to be, which of the above two does it end up being more often? Perhaps it is simply an expedient way of getting rid of the worst among us, without having to care for them in the corrections department. I dont know what it costs to execute someone in the United States of America, but in many corners of the world it is much cheaper to hang someone or to put a bullet in their brain than it is to keep them locked away.  The actual trial and the appeal process however takes its own time, and there are costs associated with that.

[Hereno]

Some of the options in the poll are sarcastic to the point of being facile. You too, Hereno?

 

As for the subject itself, i have often found myself wondering the intent beind having the capital punishment available in the arsenal of the judicial system. Is it intended to purge the society of the really vicious and condemnable types, or is it intended to provide the rest of us a sense of satisfaction and vindication?

 

OR

 

Regardless of what it is intended to be, which of the above two does it end up being more often? Perhaps it is simply an expedient way of getting rid of the worst among us, without having to care for them in the corrections department. I dont know what it costs to execute someone in the United States of America, but in many corners of the world it is much cheaper to hang someone or to put a bullet in their brain than it is to keep them locked away.  The actual trial and the appeal process however takes its own time, and there are costs associated with that.

 

I'm not sure what you mean with the first line. I just didn't expect anybody to support capital punishment for misdemeanors, and wanted to take a friendly jab at our resident libertarians. Why do you hate fun? ;_;

 

...................brb, making a poll about it

Edited by Hereno, 30 January 2013 - 01:39 AM.

[zoskia]

Against Capital punishment!

 

And VERY against Capital Punishment when the arguments involve the idea that it's "cheaper" to kill someone than to keep him in jail and that those resources could go somewhere else. Those who think that it's better to kill someone because it's cheaper are using a very twisted and perverse logic.

 

Our civilization doesn't have a lack of resources, but a bad distribution of those resources....

Do you know that we produce MORE food than the amount of food that is needed to feed the entire population... ?

[the rebel]

Voted for extreme cases, though thinking about it would throw in afew top end servere crimes too. But if you are going to give capital punishment then you do it quick and not years or even decades later like those on death row in America normally wait.

Edited by the rebel, 30 January 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[commander thrawn]

Said extreme cases, Capital punishment only really should happen with criminals who cannot be safely contained to protect society. This likely includes the leaders of terrorist organizations, big time organized crime etc. 

[Markus Wilding]

I voted okay for most severe crimes (Murder, child molestation, rape, etc.)

 

Now, I'm not talking about people who've done this only once. I mean repeat offenders, people who have either been released from or escaped from prison to do their crimes again. The guy that kills his whole family gets death, the guy that shoots the man his wife cheated on him with gets a regular sentence. Same way with child molesters and rapists. First offence - regular sentence. Second offence - death.

[Isaac MatthewII]

I voted okay for most severe crimes (Murder, child molestation, rape, etc.)

 

Now, I'm not talking about people who've done this only once. I mean repeat offenders, people who have either been released from or escaped from prison to do their crimes again. The guy that kills his whole family gets death, the guy that shoots the man his wife cheated on him with gets a regular sentence. Same way with child molesters and rapists. First offence - regular sentence. Second offence - death.

 

Not that I am "OKing" child molesters or rapists (it is sad that I need to say that but I do) but prison generally turns one time offenders into repeat offenders. Before a law like that is made we need to work out a correctional facility that actually rehabilitates our prisoners. Though I guess it could be argued for population control in our prisons but I think a large prison population has more reflection on the state of the nation than it does the population. You have to consider people that have been thrown in jail for false charges, like the man that was released after 35 years in prison after they found DNA that proved he didn't rape that child, or the man sent to death row for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Its easy to play with the idea of just killing people when they become a problem but in the end all of that blood is on your hands.

[Merrie Melodies]

Voted against for other reasons. I believe there are some people who are so damaged that they can never safely interact with society but at this time I am against capital punishment because of our flawed legal system that has sent to many innocent men to death roll.

[dotCom]

I'm in favour of the death penalty in cases such as rape and certain cases of murder, and also agree with Merrie Melodies that some criminals cannot be rehabilitated and will never be anything but a danger-- psychopaths, for example, are unlikely to stop committing crimes once they start, even after prison time (Ted Bundy comes to mind). I confess I haven't exactly studied the subject in depth and can only go off what little I've learnt myself, but that's my understanding as far as psychopaths and crime goes.

[Iscariot]

Keeping people in prison for life is too expensive. Shoot criminals, bill their families for the bullet and use the savings for Obama phones.

[Methrage]

I don't think it would be worth living if I was going to spend the rest of my life in prison, having no freedom and nothing to look forward to. So I think getting life in prison is a worse sentence than death, unless of course you get a luxury cell with access to anything you might want. So I'm in favor of the death penalty for severe crimes, as I think keeping people prisoner for to long in horrible conditions is inhumane and spending the kind of money to keep someone locked up for life in humane conditions isn't worth it for some people.

 

Personally I think anyone who gets sentenced to life in prison should get the option to choose a painless death instead, as it would save a lot of money. Maybe if they choose death, then a fraction of the money it would cost to keep them locked up for life could go to their family. Then they could at least do one good thing for somebody else before they're gone.

Edited by Methrage, 30 January 2013 - 03:48 PM.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

I agree capital punishment, but only under a very strict set of conditions.

 

1.  Guilt must be proven without a doubt.  You can always release an innocent man from jail, you can't un-execute an innocent man.

2.  The crimes must be heinous and the criminal must be a repeat offender.  If a person molests children several times in a row, or murders again when they get out of jail for murder, odds are they're not going to get better.

[juslen]

I do not support capital punishment.

[Teddyyo]

Them damn children and their theiving. They will only grow into a life of crime. Send them to hell.

[andyt2k]

My issue isn't with the capitol punishment, mines with the justice system that would lead to it

 

You kill one innocent person and none of it's been worth while.

 

I mean if you can be 100% and I mean 100%, no discussing, arguing, debating 100% sure someone did it, then yeh I say kill em

 

But our justice system expands beyond that to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" area, which isn't good enough

 

I mean yeh, if there's a load of evidence on someone, the police burst into their house and they have a torture chamber in the basement, a knife with all the victims DNA on it, pictures of them and is eating one of their ears at the time, then I say get rid of them. No point wasting money keeping them behind bars the rest of their life. I'm fine with removing them from the gene pool.

[JEB90]

My issue isn't with the capitol punishment, mines with the justice system that would lead to it

 

You kill one innocent person and none of it's been worth while.

 

I mean if you can be 100% and I mean 100%, no discussing, arguing, debating 100% sure someone did it, then yeh I say kill em

 

But our justice system expands beyond that to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" area, which isn't good enough

 

I mean yeh, if there's a load of evidence on someone, the police burst into their house and they have a torture chamber in the basement, a knife with all the victims DNA on it, pictures of them and is eating one of their ears at the time, then I say get rid of them. No point wasting money keeping them behind bars the rest of their life. I'm fine with removing them from the gene pool.

 

Why is it more acceptable to incarcerate an innocent person for life than to execute them? We have groups and inviduals pouring resources into "proving" that people sentenced to death are innocent (although their conclusions are almost ways subtantially overstated), in an effort to combat the death penalty through collective guilt. But there aren't nearly as many resources spent on people serving long prison terms and given that (as well as how it takes substanitally less effort to sentence someone to life), I would wager that we've had substantially more innocent people die old men in prison, but that isn't advanced as an argument against prisons. No one says "if even one innocent person serves a life sentence, we must let everyone out of prison (or put a cap on the maximum prison term)." Do we just care less? 

[Lord GVChamp]

Agreed with JEB. The obsession with the death penalty infuriates me. I have no idea why we have such a staunch attitude towards execution and such a lax attitude towards life imprisonment. Death penalty case, you get two lawyers, automatic appeal. Prosectuion wants to vastly improve odds? Life imprisonment. Only one public defendant, no auto-appeal.

 

All to prove a point about "killing." But taking a man out of the world and tossing him in prison isn't much better than killing him. 

[Gingervites]

Get rid of the Death penalty and Life in Prison without parole will get more attention as it would be the worse sentence you could get.

 

Also I am against the death penalty