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Rights of Fathers


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#1 Icewolf

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:01 PM

Imagine the following situation. Two people, a man and a woman meet in a bar. They both consume conspicuous amounts of of alcohol, and then go into a back alleyway and proceed to engage in the action that in old films lead them to point the camera at the ceiling and play lovely music.

As a result the woman becomes pregnant and nine months later a child is born. The Father discovers this and discovers that it is his child. There is no other relationship between them.

The question is, should the father have a right to be in the child's life? If so, how much involvement should he be allowed to have? Should he just be involved in the occaisional big decision such as school and naming, should he have 50% custody or extensive contact? Or should he be involved only in the sense that he gets to see them every other weekend but has no control over major life decisions.


To widen this out a bit there are plenty of variations, such as what if they were in a relationship, broke up, and she discovered she was pregnant by him after the split?


Anyway, at least it isn't about guns.

#2 Hiro Nakara

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:07 PM

She would have to name him on the birth certificate for him to have rights or for him to have a paternity test so it's on record as him being the biological father, if she denied such. Once it's confirmed he's the biological father, one night fling or not he has rights to see his child and also is obligated to pay child support. This is my understanding of it. Fortunately I'm married for 13 years and have 2 kids that I see daily. As fqar as much access is given that would be decided by the courts if she refused to act responsible and amicable about the situation. Usually this could be weekend visit rights and such.

I believe the decisions would be up to the parent who the child resides with such as schooling and stuff.

Fathers don't often get 50% of the access, which is unfortunate.

Edited by Hiro Nakara, 15 January 2013 - 12:09 PM.


#3 Icewolf

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:26 PM

In the UK even if you are without a doubt the father you do not get parental responsibilities (rights) unless your name is on the Birth certificate (via mothers consent or court order). This is not the case with a married couple were not only does the Husband get Parental Responsibility it is presumed that he is the father until it is shown otherwise.

Child Support is not linked to Parental Responsibility btw and you can be liable for it without having it. Neither is access to the child. All you get is the right to apply to court for a court order relating to child without the courts permission.

#4 Hiro Nakara

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:01 PM

In the UK even if you are without a doubt the father you do not get parental responsibilities (rights) unless your name is on the Birth certificate (via mothers consent or court order). This is not the case with a married couple were not only does the Husband get Parental Responsibility it is presumed that he is the father until it is shown otherwise.

Child Support is not linked to Parental Responsibility btw and you can be liable for it without having it. Neither is access to the child. All you get is the right to apply to court for a court order relating to child without the courts permission.


Luckily I'm happily married and don't have to worry about such things, The most I have to worry about is missing kids when on tour for 6 months, but at least i know I'll possibly come back to them in 1 piece and see them again.

I never realized it was as complex as it is, thanks for the info.

#5 Teddyyo

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:02 PM

The woman wasn't the only person who chose to have unprotected sex. He's got the same responsibility that she does.

#6 the rebel

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:17 PM

As a result the woman becomes pregnant and nine months later a child is born. The Father discovers this and discovers that it is his child. There is no other relationship between them.

The question is, should the father have a right to be in the child's life? If so, how much involvement should he be allowed to have? Should he just be involved in the occaisional big decision such as school and naming, should he have 50% custody or extensive contact? Or should he be involved only in the sense that he gets to see them every other weekend but has no control over major life decisions.


Yes.
As much as he wants.
Normally down to the parent the child lives with.

If the father wants nothing to do with anything related to the child, chase the idiot down and take him for every penny he has :P

#7 juslen

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:03 PM

No, he doesn't have any rights. She chose to have the child, if he wishes to have some sorts of rights he should come to an agreement with her and agree to help support the child in return for having legal rights to be in the child's life. If she doesn't agree to those terms, he has no rights and she has no right to demand that he help support the child. If she wants him to help support the child she must come to an agreement with him in order to have any rights. If an agreement can not be made between the two, then perhaps some alternative means to establish such legal rights could be utilized. This creates an incentive for people to think before they have sex with people without prior agreements.

Edited by juslen, 15 January 2013 - 07:11 PM.


#8 commander thrawn

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:03 PM

Mothers and fathers should have equal say in everything regarding the child and equal responsibility.

#9 Senji

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:11 PM

I'm pro choice. If dad wants kid, 50/50. If dad doesn't, chick better not contact him, ever. Seems fair.

Man rights!

Edited by Senji, 15 January 2013 - 07:13 PM.


#10 Rebel Virginia

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:22 PM

No, he doesn't have any rights. She chose to have the child, if he wishes to have some sorts of rights he should come to an agreement with her and agree to help support the child in return for having legal rights to be in the child's life. If she doesn't agree to those terms, he has no rights and she has no right to demand that he help support the child. If she wants him to help support the child she must come to an agreement with him in order to have any rights. If an agreement can not be made between the two, then perhaps some alternative means to establish such legal rights could be utilized. This creates an incentive for people to think before they have sex with people without prior agreements.

I'd disagree. They both chose to have the child when they engaged in intercourse. Therefore they both have rights and responsibilities.

No, abortion is not an option. As far as I am concerned it is the murder of an innocent life. There is no convincing me otherwise.

#11 Emperor Khan

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:26 AM

The question is, should the father have a right to be in the child's life? If so, how much involvement should he be allowed to have? Should he just be involved in the occaisional big decision such as school and naming, should he have 50% custody or extensive contact? Or should he be involved only in the sense that he gets to see them every other weekend but has no control over major life decisions.

I think the father's involvement will be determined on whether the mother wants him involved and whether he wants to be involved. It could be the case that both of them are happy to share responsibilties/access, it could also be the case that he wants involvement but she doesn't. The permutations are endless.

Should have gone for an abortion in the first place.

#12 Icewolf

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:39 AM

Ok first issue. If anyone turns this into an abortion thread there shall be consequences. I haven't quite decided on them yet, but lets just say they are dark and ominous consequences.


The woman wasn't the only person who chose to have unprotected sex. He's got the same responsibility that she does.

And what if she doesn't want him to be involved in the childs life? Is that her call?

#13 Emperor Khan

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:06 AM

Ok first issue. If anyone turns this into an abortion thread there shall be consequences. I haven't quite decided on them yet, but lets just say they are dark and ominous consequences.

They should have had an abortion. What's wrong with pointing out the obvious?

#14 Lord of the Port

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:26 AM

This creates an incentive for people to think before they have sex with people without prior agreements.

In case you're not joking, no, it doesn't.

#15 Hereno

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:18 AM

If you're going to bring a child into this world, you ought to take care of the damn thing.

I would wager that a large number of major societal problems we deal with are due to the fact that the average parent (see: the average person) is a complete !@#$@#$ idiot who has no business being in charge of their own lives - much less someone else's life.

#16 steodonn

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:50 AM

The situation as it stands in the UK is a disgrace. Parents should have a 50/50 say by default it should not be upto the women to essentially deiced will the man have rights to see his own child. Every man should have the right to get his name on the birth cert if he gets a positive preturnity (sp ? ) test

#17 Icewolf

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:14 AM

There is a proposal (that is contained in legislation-the government is consulting on whether to enact it) in the UK to force women to name the father on the birth certificate, unless they do not know who it is, were raped or suffered domestic violence. Or are willing to lie about any of the former.

The aim is to increase the amount of children with two parent figures. However it will not solve the issue of absentee parents as beyond child support (which the Child Support Agency treats as voluntary despite the fact that legally it is an obligation) as there will be no obligation for contact or assistance in bringing up the child in the law.

#18 Emperor Khan

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:30 AM

There is a proposal (that is contained in legislation-the government is consulting on whether to enact it) in the UK to force women to name the father on the birth certificate, unless they do not know who it is, were raped or suffered domestic violence. Or are willing to lie about any of the former.

So what happens at the moment if the mother doesn't fill in the father's name? Presumably she can't involve the CSA?

What was the name of that protest group that climbed up cranes and wore super hero costumes? Weren't they fighting for fathers rights?

#19 Icewolf

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:34 AM

She can involve the CSA even if she does not put him down. The duty to pay Child Support is separate from Parental Responsibility.

#20 jerdge

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:04 AM

Imagine the following situation. [...]

Icewolf, you should have used a condom.


J/k! :P

IMHO the rights that matter the most are the child's ones. If the parents can reach a reasonable amicable agreement about the father's involvement and it's for the best of the child everything is fine. Otherwise a court (hopefully with a specific competence and with the support of specialists) should be charged to decide on a case by case basis, again for the best of the child.
I doubt there can be a general rule that can be reasonably applied to any such a case - and in fact I think that courts' decision on minors aren't always the same.

Or in other words yes: the father has a right to be in the child's life, unless the child's rights dictate that he'd better stay away.




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