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Rush Sykes

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The three central SF/XX alliances are CSN, RIA and Fark, since we were the 3 alliances who were attacked without just cause in an indefensible war of aggression.

GOD is peripheral in that they are only in the war to defend RIA.

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[quote name='Ogaden' timestamp='1342719837' post='3012123']
The three central SF/XX alliances are CSN, RIA and Fark, since we were the 3 alliances who were attacked without just cause in an indefensible war of aggression.

GOD is peripheral in that they are only in the war to defend RIA.
[/quote]
Well... a slight correction. Umbrella's peace mode DoW on Fark was pretty defensible. So defensible for Fark that Umbrella had to bring in Denios and TLR in an attempt to help "defend" Umb nations that didn't escape into peace mode. Glad for that because it gave us more targets. We were ready to go to war against each other to see who would get open slots. Thanks!
;)

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[quote name='scytale' timestamp='1342724000' post='3012136']
Well... a slight correction. Umbrella's peace mode DoW on Fark was pretty defensible. So defensible for Fark that Umbrella had to bring in Denios and TLR in an attempt to help "defend" Umb nations that didn't escape into peace mode. Glad for that because it gave us more targets. We were ready to go to war against each other to see who would get open slots. Thanks!
;)
[/quote]
Yes, we get it, Umbrella has a bunch of their lower tier in PM. But if the top 10 nations in Fark (minus #8) came out of PM they'd most certainly have some targets, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.

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[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1342710942' post='3012095']
GOD, CSN, and Fark (maybe), no. The rest of the coalition, we'll never know! But I'd lean towards a yes.
[/quote]
That you guys expect the whole other side to of dove into this war full retard getting all their tiers destroyed on a maybe is laughable.

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[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1342728179' post='3012198']
That you guys expect the whole other side to of dove into this war full retard getting all their tiers destroyed on a maybe is laughable.
[/quote]
It's only a maybe because they've already wasted our time. If they would treat war as a war there would be far less time consumed on this. Hell, their top tiers are going to have to come out when terms roll around anyways.

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[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1342728043' post='3012193']
Yes, we get it, Umbrella has a bunch of their lower tier in PM. But if the top 10 nations in Fark (minus #8) came out of PM they'd most certainly have some targets, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.
[/quote]
Ha! I stirred someone up.

So... why [i]does[/i] Umb have their lower tier in PM?

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[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1342728940' post='3012202']
It's only a maybe because they've already wasted our time. If they would treat war as a war there would be far less time consumed on this. Hell, their top tiers are going to have to come out when terms roll around anyways.
[/quote]

I remember when the NPO and Co. told FAN that they couldn't last forever in PM and would have to come out sooner or later. Good times

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[quote name='bkphysics' timestamp='1342732474' post='3012245']
I remember when the NPO and Co. told FAN that they couldn't last forever in PM and would have to come out sooner or later. Good times
[/quote]
FAN wasn't a coalition.

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[quote name='scytale' timestamp='1342731154' post='3012234']
Ha! I stirred someone up.

So... why [i]does[/i] Umb have their lower tier in PM?
[/quote]
Oh yes, I'm so stirred up. Like a big angry pot of stew.

As I've said before I'm not privy to Umbrella's war policies (as I assume is the case with most people not in Umbrella), but if I had to take a wild guess it'd be to avoid sending their lower tier into a protracted (and rather pointless) battle with Fark's sizeable amount of 25-40K nations.

[i]Now[/i]. Before you try to equate one alliance sending its lower tier to PM to the majority of a coalition sending their upper tier to PM, please be forewarned that if you do I will have no choice but to write an [i]incredibly[/i] long blog post on the importance of context, and it's going to be absolutely [i]chock-full[/i] of parentheses and emphases, and [i]you're[/i] going to have to read the entire thing, and [i]nobody[/i] is going to enjoy any part of it.

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[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1342689698' post='3012023']
I still find it humorous the claims that if SF/XX had not used peace mode they would have been given the same sweetheart deal as VE are still floating around. No one actually believes this, so it is pointless to keep forwarding it as an attempt at a legitimate response.
[/quote]

I personally would push for lenient terms in the event they brought their top tiers out of PM.

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[quote name='bkphysics' timestamp='1342739201' post='3012317']
Fascinating point.
[/quote]
FAN needed Karma to come out of peace mode. Karma isn't coming around again until alliances are able to realign politically. This won't happen while so many mutual enemies exist. It's really simple.

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[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1342739695' post='3012322']
FAN needed Karma to come out of peace mode. Karma isn't coming around again until alliances are able to realign politically. This won't happen while so many mutual enemies exist. It's really simple.
[/quote]

Me thinks you have severely over-analyzed what I said. I was merely reminiscing about how alliances in the past tried to dictate such things as PM usage and FAN effectively showed that such threats really do nothing but make those making the threats look like children throwing a tantrum. The coalition as you put it could simply find themselves content with PM life and continue to poke at their enemies regardless of what is being done on the battlefield. This isn't all about pixels you know, and FAN showed that you can still have a lot of fun with an effectively "dead" nation.

As for alliances realigning politically, that is an inevitable fact that will come to pass in time. It's happened before and it will happen again. The pace at which this will occur will only be what changes and reenacting the ways of old definitely will help to quicken that occurrence. See, just like you said, it really is simple.

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[quote name='Artigo' timestamp='1342737345' post='3012295']
I personally would push for lenient terms in the event they brought their top tiers out of PM.
[/quote]
Same here. A lot of us don't want reps from SF/XX (they suck too much for it to be efficient for my tech growth).

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[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1342689698' post='3012023']
I still find it humorous the claims that if SF/XX had not used peace mode they would have been given the same sweetheart deal as VE are still floating around. No one actually believes this, so it is pointless to keep forwarding it as an attempt at a legitimate response.
[/quote]
It's a reality bro. I'm finding myself realizing that we are going to have to get creative with surrender terms to counter-balance SF/XX's multi-war mass-usage of peace mode. I might as well just come out and say what's really happening - they aren't defending their allies. Next time I'm in a losing war you can be sure I won't cower in peace mode as I prefer VE's philosophy then Sparta's. Post-war, who do you think will have more respect? Sparta has firmly labeled itself an infra hugging alliance and that distinction won't go away for years and years.

Edited by Steve Buscemi
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[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1342761445' post='3012488']
It's a reality bro. I'm finding myself realizing that we are going to have to get creative with surrender terms to counter-balance SF/XX's multi-war mass-usage of peace mode. I might as well just come out and say what's really happening - they aren't defending their allies. Next time I'm in a losing war you can be sure I won't cower in peace mode as I prefer VE's philosophy then Sparta's. Post-war, who do you think will have more respect? Sparta has firmly labeled itself an infra hugging alliance and that distinction won't go away for years and years.
[/quote]

"Years and years..."

That's a good one. :lol1:

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[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1342736243' post='3012277']
Oh yes, I'm so stirred up. Like a big angry pot of stew.

As I've said before I'm not privy to Umbrella's war policies (as I assume is the case with most people not in Umbrella), but if I had to take a wild guess it'd be to avoid sending their lower tier into a protracted (and rather pointless) battle with Fark's sizeable amount of 25-40K nations.

[i]Now[/i]. Before you try to equate one alliance sending its lower tier to PM to the majority of a coalition sending their upper tier to PM, please be forewarned that if you do I will have no choice but to write an [i]incredibly[/i] long blog post on the importance of context, and it's going to be absolutely [i]chock-full[/i] of parentheses and emphases, and [i]you're[/i] going to have to read the entire thing, and [i]nobody[/i] is going to enjoy any part of it.
[/quote]
No, no, no. Please, not the PARENTHESES. Anything but that. The humanity. The horror. The horror. The horror...
:lol1:

BTW, how come you and Umb aren't close enough to know no more then taking wild guesses about Umb's war policies?

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[quote name='scytale' timestamp='1342783581' post='3012536']
No, no, no. Please, not the PARENTHESES. Anything but that. The humanity. The horror. The horror. The horror...
:lol1:

BTW, how come you and Umb aren't close enough to know no more then taking wild guesses about Umb's war policies?
[/quote]
Because I don't care nearly enough to ask them about it.

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[quote name='bkphysics' timestamp='1342745160' post='3012366']
Me thinks you have severely over-analyzed what I said. I was merely reminiscing about how alliances in the past tried to dictate such things as PM usage and FAN effectively showed that such threats really do nothing but make those making the threats look like children throwing a tantrum. The coalition as you put it could simply find themselves content with PM life and continue to poke at their enemies regardless of what is being done on the battlefield. This isn't all about pixels you know, and [b]FAN showed that you can still have a lot of fun with an effectively "dead" nation.[/b]
[/quote]
FAN was a great alliance, tons of fun to fight with and against, up until their former allies turned on them and they got ground into dust and got stuck in peace mode for years. They're not as fun anymore. There is no fun to be had with zombie alliances.

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[quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1342850572' post='3012874']
FAN was a great alliance, tons of fun to fight with and against, up until their former allies turned on them and they got ground into dust and got stuck in peace mode for years. They're not as fun anymore. There is no fun to be had with zombie alliances.
[/quote]

Aren't you allied to VE, an actual zombie alliance?

FAN is still the same alliance, they never disbanded.

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They literally made an announcement that they were zombies.

And the point is that they don't participate in this game anymore except to show up every once in a while when there is a war in order to put in a token effort, post a picture of some guns, and have people that remembered how great they were in 2007 post mindless hails to bring back those posters' favorite era in cybernations.

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[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1342761445' post='3012488']
It's a reality bro. I'm finding myself realizing that we are going to have to get creative with surrender terms to counter-balance SF/XX's multi-war mass-usage of peace mode. I might as well just come out and say what's really happening - they aren't defending their allies. Next time I'm in a losing war you can be sure I won't cower in peace mode as I prefer VE's philosophy then Sparta's. Post-war, who do you think will have more respect? Sparta has firmly labeled itself an infra hugging alliance and that distinction won't go away for years and years.
[/quote]

A very solid post. Consider how long it took Legion to overcome the stigma of being cowards, peace mode pixel huggers and such. They've gotten their act together as of late, and in this war have proven themselves extremely competent and respectful with regard to both BFF and ODN. If my mind wasn't changed about them already, it is now. However, it took them years of shift and change to get to that state, something that I do not think Sparta is making an attempt to do.

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[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1342777486' post='3012530']
"Years and years..."

That's a good one. :lol1:
[/quote]
[url="http://www.cybernations.net/aid_information.asp?Nation_ID=205718http://"]Excellent counter-point. I think you miss how it intersects with common thought though. Maybe you should ponder that and come up with a good mode of operation.[/url]

More hilarious though, is that you weren't even following orders when you ran and hid, since you are a sub 75K nation. But it's okay, you can find your Bal's after the war.

[url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=342253&Extended=1"]Glad you could help out your lower tiers that we are nuking into oblivion.[/url]

Edited by Steve Buscemi
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[quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1342908928' post='3013053']
They literally made an announcement that they were zombies.

And the point is that they don't participate in this game anymore except to show up every once in a while when there is a war in order to put in a token effort, post a picture of some guns, and have people that remembered how great they were in 2007 post mindless hails to bring back those posters' favorite era in cybernations.
[/quote]

That's the point. They determined what was fun to them and they did it. It was fun for them to put a middle finger in the face of their oppressors despite being effectively neutralized in-game. Just because you may not feel their definition of playing the game is not fun, doesn't mean it wasn't. As well, I recall them being active in those "back channels" and quite happy to see what was coming. Finally, the FAN war machine has yet to be rivaled by any of the current alliances, but that is a topic of discussion for another thread.

Ultimately, they beat their oppressors, zombie mode or not, and that is something that should teach a lesson to anybody who tries to implement a similar strategy of dictating how you play the game.

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