D34th Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304916911' post='2708923'] Both wars and skill are a factor. Umbrella wouldn't be where it is without skill. There are plenty of alliances like Legion that don't fight very hard but don't have nations like Umbrella does because of their incompetence. [/quote] Activity and an average understanding of how build a nation are required and are a important factor as I said in one of my posts here, but both of them doesn't matter if you have to constantly fight wars and get your infra destroyed in attacks. [quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304916911' post='2708923'] Also not being in losing wars is not necessarily a sign of cowardice, but luck and good planning. [/quote] True, but when your are in the winner side of a war where normally there are more nations than what you need, you have a choice to fight or not and normally the choice to pick your targets, this doesn't exist when your are in the losing side. This reflect in the causality count for sure. Edited May 9, 2011 by D34th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1304916676' post='2708918'] You resorting to insults and "shut up" to argue with me are just funny also is funny that you embraced your angry side after you joined Umbrella. Your angry post changes nothing, the causalities show that many nations in your alliance fought none or very few and easy wars where the numbers were in your side, is very easy to build a big nation in that conditions. That was my point and it is based on a solid fact: Nations like the #1 and many others of your alliance are big nations not because they are geniuses of the nation building but because and only because they successfully/cowardly had avoided many wars, there are no other possible explanation for nations with high infra levels and small causality count. Your anger towards me will not change this because isn't my fault that your alliance has so many nations in this conditions. [/quote] You confuse disdain with anger. If you bother reading the posts before yours you will see that it is possible to have high infra levels and small casualty count without successfully/cowardly avoiding wars. It can't get any more obvious, even for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1304917259' post='2708925'] Activity and an average understanding of how build a nation are required and are a important factor as I said in one of my posts here, but both of them doesn't matter if you have to constantly fight wars and get your infra destroyed in attacks. [/quote] Major wars don't happen frequently enough to keep active and competent long term players from entering into each one with at least an upper middle tier nation even if they get ZI'd in every war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304918054' post='2708931'] Major wars don't happen frequently enough to keep active and competent long term players from entering into each one with at least an upper middle tier nation even if they get ZI'd in every war. [/quote] NoCB war -> 7 months -> Karma war ends -> 6 months -> BiPolar War -> 9 Months -> PB/NpO War This is the latests wars that I took part of, now between BiPolar War and the last war I had 9 months to rebuild and save a warchest and my nation NS peak was something around 90K NS. In the war against VE I lost all my infra(9k) and 6k tech and to re-buy 6k tech I'll spent at least 10 months + one month that Polaris lost because of terms + one month rebuilding before start buy tech again = 1 year. So regardless I don't take part of a war again, what is very unlikely since a major wars happens in a interval small than 12 months, I'll never be able to surpass my previous NS peak. I hope you agree with me that I'm very active and competent enough to build a properly nation, so is impossible to have these big nations if you actually [b]fight wars[/b] independently if you are in the winner or losing side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1304920143' post='2708944'] NoCB war -> 7 months -> Karma war ends -> 6 months -> BiPolar War -> 9 Months -> PB/NpO War This is the latests wars that I took part of, now between BiPolar War and the last war I had 9 months to rebuild and save a warchest and my nation NS peak was something around 90K NS. In the war against VE I lost all my infra(9k) and 6k tech and to re-buy 6k tech I'll spent at least 10 months + one month that Polaris lost because of terms + one month rebuilding before start buy tech again = 1 year. So regardless I don't take part of a war again, what is very unlikely since a major wars happens in a interval small than 12 months, I'll never be able to surpass my previous NS peak. I hope you agree with me that I'm very active and competent enough to build a properly nation, so is impossible to have these big nations if you actually [b]fight wars[/b] independently if you are in the winner or losing side. [/quote] 6k tech is a lot higher tech to lose than normal. Regardless even if you don't recover to your pre-war level, you'll still rebuild to an upper middle-tier level within a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla Napalm Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1304920143' post='2708944'] NoCB war -> 7 months -> Karma war ends -> 6 months -> BiPolar War -> 9 Months -> PB/NpO War This is the latests wars that I took part of, now between BiPolar War and the last war I had 9 months to rebuild and save a warchest and my nation NS peak was something around 90K NS. In the war against VE I lost all my infra(9k) and 6k tech and to re-buy 6k tech I'll spent at least 10 months + one month that Polaris lost because of terms + one month rebuilding before start buy tech again = 1 year. So regardless I don't take part of a war again, what is very unlikely since a major wars happens in a interval small than 12 months, I'll never be able to surpass my previous NS peak. I hope you agree with me that I'm very active and competent enough to build a properly nation, so is impossible to have these big nations if you actually [b]fight wars[/b] independently if you are in the winner or losing side. [/quote] You do have a point. What Umbrella really needs is a NpO-esque government capable of making idiotic decisions and the almost total alienation of allies on a near-annual basis. That would certainly shore up their casualties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1304921085' post='2708950'] You do have a point. What Umbrella really needs is a NpO-esque government capable of making idiotic decisions and the almost total alienation of allies on a near-annual basis. That would certainly shore up their casualties. [/quote] [i]A wild Umbrella's fanboy appears... [/i] It uses as best argument insults towards New Polar Order. [i]It doesn't affect D34th...[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodemofi-NPO Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Good luck Pacificans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1304850982' post='2708488'] Its lonely at the top for GOONS anyways [/quote] Not anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1304920143' post='2708944'] NoCB war -> 7 months -> Karma war ends -> 6 months -> BiPolar War -> 9 Months -> PB/NpO War This is the latests wars that I took part of, now between BiPolar War and the last war I had 9 months to rebuild and save a warchest and my nation NS peak was something around 90K NS. In the war against VE I lost all my infra(9k) and 6k tech and to re-buy 6k tech I'll spent at least 10 months + one month that Polaris lost because of terms + one month rebuilding before start buy tech again = 1 year. So regardless I don't take part of a war again, what is very unlikely since a major wars happens in a interval small than 12 months, I'll never be able to surpass my previous NS peak. I hope you agree with me that I'm very active and competent enough to build a properly nation, so is impossible to have these big nations if you actually [b]fight wars[/b] independently if you are in the winner or losing side. [/quote] How in the hell did you lose 6k tech. I got swarmed by nations 30k higher than me and went through the meat grinder of AZTEC's mid tier and still only lost 2k. You must have been nuked by some serious nations. 0__o Edited May 9, 2011 by Hyperion321 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wabooz Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Casualty arguments? face it, y'all have run out of !@#$ to argue about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1304922701' post='2708957'] How in the hell did you lose 6k tech. I got swarmed by nations 30k higher than me and went through the meat grinder of AZTEC's mid tier and still only lost 2k. You must have been nuked by some serious nations. 0__o [/quote] I fought approximately 16 wars, and with the exception of one nation that I declared in the first round, they were all bigger than me and in the first rounds I was losing almost 200 tech by each nuke: [quote]To: D34th From: Gunninglike Date: 1/25/2011 4:02:47 AM Subject: Nuclear Attack Message: Your nation has been attacked with nuclear weapons by Gunninglike. You lost 42709 soldiers, 5547 defending tanks, 0 cruise missiles, 593.226 miles of land, 197.742 technology, 593.226 infrastructure, 75% of your aircraft, and 25% of your nuclear vulnerable navy force. In addition to these losses your nation will experience many days of economic devastation.[/quote] That hurts a lot. Edited May 9, 2011 by D34th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white majik Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1304920143' post='2708944'] so is impossible to have these big nations if you actually [b]fight wars[/b] independently if you are in the winner or losing side. [/quote] Drai-101k NS and 12 Casualties Oink-239k NS and 12 million Casualties Fantom-140k NS and 11 million Casualties Zoom- 146k NS and 10 million Casualties Arcades-9k NS and 10 million Casualties Seems to me that it is possible to have a big nation if you fight wars. I do understand where your coming from, because Ive been ZIed in every major war for the past 3 years both on the winning and losing side and lost count of nukes taken after 75. Yet I always surpass my previous peak strength. You can be big and fight, all it takes is nation builing (warchests) and being active (tech). Depending on your alliances you might never break the 100k mark such as NSO or GOONS due to being always invovled in conflicts but you can still grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla Napalm Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1304921765' post='2708952'] [i]A wild Umbrella's fanboy appears... [/i] It uses as best argument insults towards New Polar Order. [i]It doesn't affect D34th...[/i] [/quote] Considering the crux of this arguement is a contrast between Umbrella's casualties and yours/NpO upper-tier casualties, i'd suggest that was more an observation. I was just a little worried that you were possibly misconstruing the results of poor diplomatic decisions with "fighting independently". Charming Yugioh reference though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='white majik' timestamp='1304933135' post='2708997'] Drai-101k NS and 12 Casualties Oink-239k NS and 12 million Casualties Fantom-140k NS and 11 million Casualties Zoom- 146k NS and 10 million Casualties Arcades-9k NS and 10 million Casualties Seems to me that it is possible to have a big nation if you fight wars. I do understand where your coming from, because Ive been ZIed in every major war for the past 3 years both on the winning and losing side and lost count of nukes taken after 75. Yet I always surpass my previous peak strength. You can be big and fight, all it takes is nation builing (warchests) and being active (tech). Depending on your alliances you might never break the 100k mark such as NSO or GOONS due to being always invovled in conflicts but you can still grow. [/quote] There are two possibilities to this cases: Or they are just exceptions or they started to fight just after being that big and had the warchets to keep their nations at that size, I'm more inclined to believe in the later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1304922399' post='2708956'] Not anymore [/quote] It will be after 3 weeks but honestly, v. consistent fighting from GOONS lower tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimos Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Personally, I am saddened to see the war is coming to an end. I am enjoying fighting the invaders. Glad to see some of our upper tier finally set loose. Also, casualty arguments are lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='white majik' timestamp='1304933135' post='2708997'] Oink-239k NS and 12 million Casualties Arcades-9k NS and 10 million Casualties [/quote] Actually Arcades is currently at 6,852.339 NS. Oink has proven that it is possible to build a huge nation if you fight wars, as long as you make sure that you're always on the winning side of the curbstomp and can get sanctions imposed when your raiding targets fight back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1304938393' post='2709010'] There are two possibilities to this cases: Or they are just exceptions or they started to fight just after being that big and had the warchets to keep their nations at that size, I'm more inclined to believe in the later. [/quote] Does what you write really make sense in your head while you write it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomzoomzoom Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1304943729' post='2709025'] Oink has proven that it is possible to build a huge nation if you fight wars, as long as you make sure that you're always on the winning side of the curbstomp and can get sanctions imposed when your raiding targets fight back. [/quote] That's why he spent the entire Karma war fighting on the losing side as Valhalla's #1 nation? okay. And don't insult me people. I'm nearly at 11 million casualties, not 10 million. Edited May 9, 2011 by Zoomzoomzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 Captain Obvious To The Rescue: 1) Fighting a tough, nuclear war makes it harder to have a high-NS nation. 2) That hardship increases exponentially with the intensity of the war, with it being very little if you are curbstomping somebody, moderately hard if you have even odds, and impossible if you are being curbstomped - so long as you remain in battle. 3) There is a positive correlation between combat and casualties. 4) This discussion is pointless. Now, let's go back to talking about NPO. I, for one would like to thank Umbrella and MK for helping me claim the top dancing spot by a mile: 1) -42,342 Strength Change - Letum of Canton - Red Team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1304938393' post='2709010'] There are two possibilities to this cases: Or they are just exceptions or they started to fight just after being that big and had the warchets to keep their nations at that size, I'm more inclined to believe in the later. [/quote] Drai's nation has seen more war than most in this world. He usually is in the thick of the fight and not looking for leftovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1304926112' post='2708973'] I fought approximately 16 wars, and with the exception of one nation that I declared in the first round, they were all bigger than me and in the first rounds I was losing almost 200 tech by each nuke: That hurts a lot. [/quote] Yep, that would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1304944175' post='2709028'] Does what you write really make sense in your head while you write it? [/quote] Nice try, but you missed again. Keep trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted May 9, 2011 Report Share Posted May 9, 2011 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1304938393' post='2709010'] There are two possibilities to this cases: Or they are just exceptions or they started to fight just after being that big and had the warchets to keep their nations at that size, I'm more inclined to believe in the later. [/quote] You're free to believe whatever you want, doesn't make you right though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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