Khyber Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1302490922' post='2688273'] With no end TOOL is essentially going to be a tech farm to MK. TOOL's large nations will suffer from having to go outside the alliance to find dealers or if TOOL is lucky and they actually have an active low tier that can pay off 26k tech fast. Otherwise, TOOL is essentially going to be out even from the next war because I doubt they will be able to transfer 26k to MK in a years time. This is a bad deal. Good luck to TOOL in getting this paid any time soon. [/quote] 2 nations with 5 tech deals can pump out 500 tech a month (3 cycles, 30 days) each. So 26k for 2 tech dealers is 23 months. 4 nations can finish it in 13 months. 8 nations can finish it in 7 months. 16 in 4 months. TOOL has some 40 nations that can probably tech deal. So if they can get some 40% of them to do 3 to 4 rounds of tech deals, they are done. This is not an overly difficult thing. Their larger nations should be dedicated to sledding nations in the mean time. Lets not make this into a great crime just for propaganda purposes. That said, glad to see peace especially to our allies and Umbrella, who I still love from the old days of Citadel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1302491770' post='2688298'] Yes, tech deals the horror. Truly this is the story that you'll be using to haunt your children for years to come[/quote] Well yes it truly is a horror that will haunt all our children as tech sellers are getting harder and harder to find as the worlds population shrinks... What has been secured here is the "active" TOOL tech sellers however many that may be. Regardless congrats to TOOL for getting peace they found agreeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guffey Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 thanks for standing with everyone TOOL. Good luck on those tech deals, and happy rebuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1302489227' post='2688244'] The point is to tie up aid slots. Although that's totally eliminated by the 3 month delay, which holds even if the rest of us get white peace tomorrow, so, idk. PB and Doomhut have already proven their ineptitude at writing terms on multiple occasions now, so whatever. Maybe the "spirit" is once again something radically different from what the text says. [/quote] I'm fairly sure the terms we agreed on with Polar were written fine, seeing as they have been followed nearly to the letter, and in a couple of days they'll be released from them. If both parties understand completely what the terms are about, but you don't, I think that makes you the inept one, not PB, Polar, or anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delgursh Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Im really glad to see TOOL finally get peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagrr Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Congrats TOOL. There is always another day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdcchn Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='delgursh' timestamp='1302500025' post='2688388'] Im really glad to see TOOL finally get peace. [/quote] i am really glad to see you back old man! and congrats to the participants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoCosta Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 'Grats and good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1302499806' post='2688386'] I'm fairly sure the terms we agreed on with Polar were written fine, seeing as they have been followed nearly to the letter, and in a couple of days they'll be released from them. If both parties understand completely what the terms are about, but you don't, I think that makes you the inept one, not PB, Polar, or anyone else. [/quote] As a by-product of my studies as a mathematician and logician, (When I find the spare time from being the ruler of my lands, which is by the way more frequent now with so few citizens to look after), I am prone to detecting slight nuances in things. In fact, at least one item from the Polar document was corrected after it was published. While the spirits of all the agreements were obvious under the context of this world, there were, from a purely logical perspective when taken in their most literal form, slight nuances that caused the document to deviate from what was arguably the spirit and intent. It's in my nature to examine the components of things, and not just merely the "big picture," the latter of which can at times be deceiving to the eye. I was not referring to [i]just[/i] the Polar terms, however. When I write, I am exact with my words, and I mean precisely what I say, insofar as the logical content of those words. I don't hide things to be read into when writing official legal documents, I leave nothing up to guesswork or assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithis Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 No tech for Umbrella? HARSHEST TERMS EVER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 As far as I'm concerned, terms are bound through the medium in which they are negotiated, which is why a word left out of the public posting of our terms didn't change anything. HeroOfTime, why not just consider these posted documents more along the lines of public notifications? No reason to lose sleep over it. It's upsetting that you got stuck with reparations again after all, TOOL. Best wishes paying these off swiftly and painlessly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1302482682' post='2688149'] [color="#0000FF"]26,000 tech is absolutely ridiculous. I am aware that you came in through a chain, yet MK is still the party that started this war. Although they will be getting their tech, none of it is justified.[/color] [/quote] Dont sweat it. If its one thing karma thought us when the "mighty" fall they have to repay reps demandsd is previous wars too. By the time mk fall it should be all their tech from every member until they have no tech left as an alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 There are no reparations, only forced loans. I'm sure MK realizes they will have to pay it all back with interest due if they ever lose a war. They can build up a tab as large as they wish but debts always seem to catch up... unless of course they never lose again. A risky gamble to be sure, but they're hardly the first ones to take it and they'll hardly be the last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1302505784' post='2688423'] As far as I'm concerned, terms are bound through the medium in which they are negotiated, which is why a word left out of the public posting of our terms didn't change anything. HeroOfTime, why not just consider these posted documents more along the lines of public notifications? No reason to lose sleep over it. [/quote] You do have a solid point here. But I've generally known the posted terms to be a direct mechanical copy of the original signed terms. Some things get lost in the process from time to time, but we are past an age where scribes must copy each word and in such manner introduce human errors. Regardless, proofreading is vital in official announcements, especially ones that deal with binding legal contracts, terms, and conditions. Flawed copies can lend themselves to misunderstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1302489227' post='2688244'] The point is to tie up aid slots. Although that's totally eliminated by the 3 month delay, which holds even if the rest of us get white peace tomorrow, so, idk. PB and Doomhut have already proven their ineptitude at writing terms on multiple occasions now, so whatever. Maybe the "spirit" is once again something radically different from what the text says. [/quote] With that kind of disconnected logic it must be really painful to be inside the head of your nation's ruler.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwuss Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1302506937' post='2688435'] There are no reparations, only forced loans. I'm sure MK realizes they will have to pay it all back with interest due if they ever lose a war. They can build up a tab as large as they wish but debts always seem to catch up... unless of course they never lose again. A risky gamble to be sure, but they're hardly the first ones to take it and they'll hardly be the last. [/quote] Forced loans.... That's a new one. It's tech deals in which the seller gets the standard rate and makes money, hardly a loan on any sense of the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1302507992' post='2688444'] Forced loans.... That's a new one. It's tech deals in which the seller gets the standard rate and makes money, hardly a loan on any sense of the word. [/quote] Perhaps I'm alone in viewing payment terms this way. It's a loan in the sense that it is recorded and follows the recipient around long after the payment date, whether or not it is ever paid back. It's forced in the sense that TOOL would not be participating if it wasn't required by the terms. You wouldn't really be trying to claim that 3/100 tech deals are the swiftest way for an alliance to rebuild damaged nations in the age of high warchests, would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol Navy Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 I have to laugh at people saying this isn't somehow forced reps because MK is paying for tech. I can hardly believe TOOL was just sitting around hoping that MK would come along and buy tech from them. This prevents in large part TOOL from rebuying tech lost in this war in it's upper tiers because their sellers are being forced to sell to MK. As has been the case for the past 2+ years now, MK and company get further ahead, this entire side falls further behind. No more balance in the world until some people that stick with the current hegemony decide that there isn't any challenge or fun in keeping rolling the NPO sphere. As members of this small sphere have demonstrated, we aren't going to break, we aren't going to die, we aren't going to disband. We will simply rebuild and fight the best fight we can muster every time you have a bad dream about 2007 NPO. Unfortunately that fight will be less and less even as there is simply no possible way to compete with the technology the PB/DH/CnG and satellite alliances (Sparta, TOP, MHA etc) have aquired over the past 2-3 years while this side has had theirs blown away then shipped out to that side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 FYI, there is no restriction on internal dealings, and no time-frame for the completion of payments. Only a number and a [i]starting[/i] date. Assuming these are the actual terms, TOOL could do one deal per month, though I suspect they would rather pay it off quickly. These terms don't lock them down in the slightest, especially with a hard-coded 3 months for them to do whatever pleases them most. Factoring in Penguin's points... All people are going to remember about this is the number, and this is going to wind up contributing more to MK dissent than it's really worth, even if TOOL moves to pay it off right away. Sort of a silly mistake to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balkan Banania Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Congratulation on peace. Wishes for a swift rebuilding and many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithis Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1302509999' post='2688456'] All people are going to remember about this is the number, and this is going to wind up contributing more to MK dissent than it's really worth, even if TOOL moves to pay it off right away. Sort of a silly mistake to make. [/quote] I'm sure when judgment day is nigh, and the Almighty looks upon MK after their demise and decides their fate, he will recall [b]this day[/b] as but one of many when the corrupt members of the Kingdom lusted after technology, forgoing their morals. And thus the prophet, HeroofTime55, has spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Good to see this front brought to a close. Good luck rebuilding TOOL and MK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 [quote name='Sithis' timestamp='1302512825' post='2688463'] I'm sure when judgment day is nigh, and the Almighty looks upon MK after their demise and decides their fate, he will recall [b]this day[/b] as but one of many when the corrupt members of the Kingdom lusted after technology, forgoing their morals. And thus the prophet, HeroofTime55, has spoken. [/quote] Ignoring the silly stuff you added about morals, judgment, and fate the point is still fundamentally sound. If you reap the rewards of taking tech from the alliances you defeat you assume some risks as well. I would be shocked if anyone high up in MK disagreed with me. They're smart enough to understand what will likely happen to the tech they've taken if they ever lose a war badly enough, so they must think they have a pretty good hand of cards going forward. They probably do, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kencojenko Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 I'm glad this has come to a close and good luck to TOOL, whichever option you choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArneS Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Congrats on peace guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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