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      Cyber Nations Forum Rules   07/03/2016

        Cyber Nations Forum Rules  
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About this blog

Schattenmann's Disused Blog

Entries in this blog

Schattenmann

OsWorld_zpsed6368fa.jpg




Good afternoon, I'm Schattenmann, your humble fact-checker for this mini-presentation of Os's World, your number one source for news from that land beyond the clouds, that happy land somewhere over the rainbow where the sky is green, the sun is purple, and trees grow down.

Today, we visit that wonderful land again, beckoned by the claims of His Backwardness that:


I oppose certain things in bob. Reparations. Eternal wars. A few others. I oppose them whether my allies do them or whether enemies do them. Ive certainly shown over the years ill take unpopular stances because its what I agree with. So yeah.


To do homage to the man, I say : :::::::chortle:::::: :

Opposition is Action
Let us first channel that biggest jerkwad of philosophy, the man who gave us pedantry, Socrates, and ask first: what is it to "oppose"? This is a word which implies action, oppose is a verb, it is not a passive state, but affirmative. We understand that to oppose something means to stand in its way. If a man opposes something, he acts to stop it. If a man is opposed to something, he moves to separate himself from it.
We can greater understand this concept of opposition by considering its opposite, support. Support, too, is an action. Support enables things. A treaty is support, war is support, diplomatic pressure is support.
Opposition is powerful. If rulers and alliances took stock of their ideals, and stood upon them, the world would shudder.

Truth is Found in Action
Now, let us examine OsRavan's record of opposition to reparations, eternal wars, etc. For it is in a man's action that we find the truth.
  • In his perverted part in a perverted play, he directed the forces of ODN in enforcement of peace terms in the DH-NPO War which included $2.427 Billion in reparations ($1B from Legion alone), and a month long extended war against the top tier of Pacifica.
  • In the Dave War, ODN itself demanded an extended war of top-tier MCXA nations.
  • In the TOP-C&G War, ODN stood shoulder-to-shoulder with its allies and coalition in demands for reps totaling over $1 Billion and tens-of-thousands of tech (most of it blood money to GOONS), and 40,000 tech from Legion.


It is most often the case that when we discuss the historical sins of an alliance, we must be careful to remember that their sins have been across multiple administrations, and that distance makes for penance.
Not so with ODN and OsRavan.
OsRavan himself led the Network in each of these wars and always unfalteringly waved the banner of his bloodthirsty allies.

OsRavan Found False
Os's World is a weird place, indeed. It is a world where a man finds it perfectly sane to decry every kind of injustice who has himself committed his personal influence, and the military might of his alliance to the extraction of outrageous reps; who has himself accepted reps; who has put the weight of his alliance behind the acts he himself decries over and over again, enthusiastically.

Why must we continue to examine OsRavan?

 

 

I think your obsession with Os is bordering on alarming.
With that I'm going to recuse myself from the impending NpO circlejerk itt.


 

How many of these nine illustrious years have been spent nursing your unhealthy obsession with OsRavan? I wanna say six but that number seems kinda low...



OsRavan breathes rarefied air as one of very few men whose person came to define an AA and in many ways an era. His person is political, to discuss the person of OsRavan is to discuss ODN. Where OsRavan lies, the truth must be brought forth.
This is no petty personal squabble, but a question of the state of things. As long as twisted manipulators such as OsRavan are allowed to spew their backwards histories, alliances will continue to emulate them.

History is the sum of actions of men, OsRavan's opposition could have meant an entirely different world, but despite his repetitive cries that his principles give no regard to politics, we see that he has no principles, and he perpetuated a world without principle.

So, my dear reader, on this, the 1,752nd day since OsRavan forced reparations from Cult of Justitia, and the 1,751st day since he began denying it, I'm your host Schattenmann bidding you good day from all of us in Os's World.

Os's World 1
Os's World 2

Source: A Valentine from TPF
Schattenmann

Kvass

I'm looking for a drink

In 2005, I was in Moscow, and we went to this restaurant called Myu Myu; it was like a Russian Golden Coral, buffet, big fiberglass cow on top of the roof.

I accidentally picked up the translator's glass and drank his drink, and he gave me a weird look, like he was expecting something. I asked what it was and he said it was kvass and apologized. I said what for, it was really good, which amazed him.

Now: The drink at Myu Myu was thick, pink-ish, kind of sweet, and a little malty.

So, I convinced the translator to sneak off to the grocery store with me, and I bought 4 litres of kvass to bring home.

I opened a bottle on the plane, and an attendant bumrushed me to tell me there was no alcohol allowed, I saw her nametag was Polish, so I said, it's just kvass, and her eyes got big as saucers and she said "oh, you're American? You LIKE kvass?" And I told her I did.

Then I poured a cup, and it was brown, thin, and sour. And it was disgusting.

Are any of you Russian and/or do any of you have any idea what I drank? I've wanted more for 10 years.

Schattenmann

Rolling in the Deep

That said, there is plenty of blame to go around regarding what went wrong in the EQ War (on both sides really) and Brehon was by no means solely responsible.

I agree. It is convenient to blame NPO for all of the EQ coalition’s troubles because it was the one that adopted responsibility for leading the (otherwise largely leaderless) eclectic group, and was the most recognised example of the conflicts of interest which plagued the coalition. The more-subtle truth is that the coalition suffered from divergent interests and/or different levels of commitment among many alliances and on multiple fronts which resulted in EQ being less effective than it might have been (which probably would have worsened if the war continued), but that does not fit well with the narrative for this war.

This post is best experienced while listening to:

Your summary gives a half-treatment to the issues.

NPO didn't just "adopt" responsibility for the coalition, they were responsible for the war; they organized it for like 4 months prior. Then they did the exact opposite of take responsibility: They announced that they weren't anyone's boss. Then Brehon disappeared.

NPO is not simply some passive object "example of the conflicts of interest." NPO actively schemed with its Umbrella-aligned allies before the war, made promises of a "handshake peace" made deals about who would be hit and who would not, and made promises about what coalition AAs would be allowed to do or not do. They didn't just have conflicts of interest, they created them and imposed them upon us.

There is no subtle truth about the internal conflict of EQ, there is simply the truth: The divergent alliances were invited to a war and given the impression that it was the Big One we'd all been waiting for for 2 years, and that with NPO abdicating leadership we would be running the war by consensus and to its natural conclusion. But that was never true because, we found out, NPO had already submitted a script to NG and C&G for approval and we weren't to be told until it was time to pull the plug. Then Punxsutawney Brehon came out of his hole he didn't see his shadow, so it was time to end the war whether anyone else liked it or not, and as anyone with a brain might have imagined, we all became quite agitated.

VE was on the verge of surrender after a long and retarded negotiation in which QueenHailee asked for input then went manic and disappeared when she received it, then--while preaching to all of us about our selfish idiocy over DH terms--NPO derailed the VE surrender in a weeklong battle over getting their name in the surrender-to list. Then NPO convened DH peace negotiations against the will of the vast majority of the coalition, thus precluding VE's surrender at all since they knew they could just hang out for whole-Umbrella peace. Thus we lost the crucial serious first surrender.

NPO continued to fake us all out over our supposed voice in the coalition when Brehon opened a thread asking for our beginning point terms for each AA we were at war with in preparation for his peace summit which we told him not to have in the first place. I know, height of irony, but a nice gesture. Then he proceeded to ignore everything we said and present his own terms loosely based on what we had said, to which Umbrella, MK, and GOONS went batcrap while OsRavan (or somebody) reminded Brehon of his "handshake peace" promise. The negotiations were too early for DH's damages to have warranted any serious consideration of peace terms, and Brehon's version of what we told him was too extreme; therefore, they blew us off, and left with the impression that we were ready for peace when we were not.

At this point, NPO should have let the war continue, but they were Hell-bent on the white peace and they were Hell-bent on it now. Brehon, Farrin, and Letum went on an internal campaign of berating the coalition for daring to ask for peace terms; this created massive arguments between NPO and AAs which wanted to continue the war or wanted peace terms, and between AAs who wanted terms and AAs who wanted to cut-and-run. NPO began trying to assert the responsibility/control they had refused at the outset; this set the dickheads on the C&G front on a path of obstinance for obstinance's sake.

Regardless of his clear inability to control anything or speak with a mandate on behalf of the coalition, Brehon again opened peace talks, and again mutated what the coalition wanted--a longer war with DH--into what he thought would work for us and within the promises he made pre-war--a negotiated extended war against Umb only. Sure, that worked very well for NPO with its inactive upper tier and $%&@ed up FA.

In the midst of our objections Brehon lost his blob, announced he was done negotiating, then went to NobodyExpects' Parlor of Love for a massage, and on NE's consult alone took the damn Frankenstein's Peace Monster to DH anyway.

At this point he turned around and told us that NPO, AI, and IRON pre-determined everything about the war and how it would end, and that we could sign the treaty or get bent.

The damage was done. The strife opened up by all this scheming and bullying had turned EQ into a roiling basketcase which signed the peace to get away from NPO and from each other. As ChairmanHal says, "there is plenty to go around" but with this exception: only that some of us could have handled ourselves better in dealing with NPO's crap.

And you know the shame of it all? What was it for? NPO got nothing. All those gymnastics to keep DuckRoll and win over C&G. I wish I got a dollar for every time NPO told us we had to go easy on DH because C&G was cancelling on them after fulfilling their debts this one last time. But you lost it all. Your scheming split arguably your best ally Anarchy Inc. in two and destroyed it, the scheming alienated IRON losing DR for you. And C&G, if the promises were made at all, reneged on them. Everyone in EQ was royally pissed or simply disillusioned. You got nothing out of all that.

Source: NPO Declaration of War and Sing-Along War Report

Schattenmann

Be warned: The links in this blog discuss nudity and have photos of a man in his underwear.

So, today I accidentally went into battle against a famous internet idiot when I didn't realize he was actually Facebook friends with the person whose status I was commenting on.

In case you're unfamiliar, Brian Zulberti emailed the entire Delaware Bar Association with a cocky, stupid email looking for a job. Attached to the email was a photo of himself showing off his arm muscles.

Delaware lawyers of course Googled him, and were met with nude and semi-nude photos that he had carelessly uploaded to social media websites. By this point, he was a laughing stock of Delaware, which a person could live down since who even knows where Delaware is, but then the internet discovered him and this idiot is forever unemployable regardless of how creepily smooth his armpits are or how big his arm muscles are.

Still unemployed (or self-employed, same difference) now he's running a website to advocate for employees who get fired over their own social media faux pas. What's the clincher? Fully nude photos of himself. How is he advertising his new initiative? e-mailing the entire Delaware Bar Association, again.

So, anyway, for your enjoyment: Schattenmann clashes with an honest-to-God internet phenomenon (I'm in blue).

bBCDBtu.png

Full disclosure: I'm 5'11" and weigh 185. I do not work at Pizza Hut :P And if I had realized that Zulberti was going to see my comment, I probably wouldn't have made fun of his womanish armpits.

Schattenmann

The Schattenmann Fanclub's Founder/President Prototyoe Ruler has been away for several years, and I'm kind of shy, so the club hasn't been doing much. However, I think it is important to recognize a dedicated fan who has, for the past 2 years, made his devotion to me known more conspicuously than any other fawning fan on the planet.

I speak, of course, of none other than Crymson. Through his years of unwavering dedication to steering every conversation towards Schattenmann rather than the topic at hand, Crymson has earned the title SchattenFan of the Year.

As a reward, he gets this special blog wherein I, Schattenmann, the object of his devotion, acknowledge him; a pair of my dirty underwear which has been chemically treated to retain my scent for at least 2 years under regular sniffing conditions; and I have asked the courts to suspend the restraining order for a period of 3 days.

Congratulations, Crymson!

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dy3rya.jpg

"Doitzel was (like you) an inveterate attention whore, obsessed with obtaining and maintaining significance. And outside of a very small group, nobody liked Zhadum, not even his peers in NPO. "

3166993[/snapback] September 09, 2013

"Of course, we all know regardless that everything you do follows your compulsive need for attention."

3079384[/snapback] January 18, 2013

"Oh, it's Schattenman's "Attention at any cost!" routine again. Yawn. You're a fairly intelligent guy, Schatt, and implying that I flushed TOP down the toilet by participating in a highly risky preempt against an entire bloc and then following that two lines later with the implication that I'm a stat collector was not at all well thought-out. I can thus only assume that it was motivated by your constant and desperate need to always get a contrary word in."

2960340[/snapback] April 28, 2012

Please, PLEASE respond to my bait!

I fixed it for you.

"Schattenman's struggle for attention and recognition continues."

3021737[/snapback] August 31, 2012

"Congratulations, Schattenman, on three years of taking yourself too seriously and seeking attention at every turn."

2975301[/snapback] May 31, 2012

"Hey, look, it's Schattenmann taking the contrary viewpoint in order to garner attention. How very new. Wait, is it 2008?"

2908069[/snapback] January 27, 2012

"Nay, you like the sound of your own voice more, and attention the most, and this more or less defines your existence in Cybernations."

2894153[/snapback] January 26, 2012

"So, we've got Doitzel and Schattenman, two people who prioritize the attainment of attention above all else, bleating about this affair... and some of you are actually allowing them to get you riled up?"

2901876[/snapback] January 17, 2012

"Waving your arms for attention apparently takes higher priority for you than does checking facts before opening your mouth. We were unhappy with that action of the NPO's; we did not participate."

2859863[/snapback] December 02, 2011

"Translation: 'I like those of you who engage me in my very transparent attempts to attract attention to myself. I dislike those of you who call me out for my very transparent attempts to attract attention to myself.'"

2767043[/snapback] July 29, 2011

"It appears you really like the sound of your own e-voice. That's about the best reason I can muster up to explain the sizable puddle of drivel you've just expelled. It also seems you've quite a fixation on me. Like I said, have fun!"

2766816[/snapback] July 29, 2011

"Good old Schattenman... anything to be noticed. Whether it takes flip-flopping, screaming about subjective morality or making up charges that hardly carry any sense at all, we can count to make every effort to attract attention to yourself."

2766470[/snapback] July 28, 2011

"You sure do keep strong vendettas against those of us willing to call you out for the attention addict you are."

2753380[/snapback] July 09, 2011

"You go ahead and think whatever makes you feel more important. Feeling important was, after all, the purpose of Vox for you and Doitzel."

2716493[/snapback] May 22, 2011

Schattenmann

In Praise of VE

The Stage

Yesterday, the world witnessed a cancellation years in the making: The withdrawal of the Viridian Entente from the 2-member Balkan Entente bloc.

The Balkan Entente was signed in 2008; it's constituent AAs being Argonaut, VE, and GOD. Argo was a smallish Green alliance with a really complicated and silly government structure, which later merged into VE leaving GOD and VE the only parties to the treaty.

For whatever reason--disbandment denial, bad breath, dumb leaders--VE was never welcome among GOD's other bloc, SuperFriends, so the perpetual bond of the Balkan Entente served VE well as an avenue to a real bloc. In the period immediately post-Pax Pacifica (while SuperFriends and C&G pinched their noses and locked lips long enough to make sure NPO was dead-dead) the Balkan Entente continued to be a boon to both VE and GOD, and VE used the period to begin exploring options to create its own power base. In October 2010, VE's efforts paid off with Pandora's Box, a bloc comprised of itself, Fok, iFok, Poison Clan, Umbrella, and GOONS.

Unfortunately for VE, just over 2 weeks after the formation of PB, GOONS and Umbrella entered into the Doom House bloc with MK. With the C&G-SuperFriends charade finally ending, VE was once again left in the lurch; rather than captaining their third-rail bloc PB, their blocmates pulled the infant bloc toward DH and C&G. VE was left straddling two irreconcilable power spheres.

The Problem

Pulled in two directions, VE sought to keep the peace. Only a very few know what must have gone on in the back rooms of DH, PB, SF, and C&G as their post-Karma nose-pinching quickly unraveled. In the end, VE was unable to stop the war that first DH and their Mjolnir allies and then DH and their Pacifican allies brought to SF in pursuit of GOD.

Regardless of whether GOD will come to terms with it, rather than defending their ally, VE was left playing conductor to the symphony of war in the first instance, and then a half-hearted defense in the second.

For over a year, the Balkan Entente was more than broken. Yet it remained. No longer an alliance between two alliances, now a sinister, mocking reminder of its failure. A sentimental relic.

For too long, the world's alliances have united almost universally behind the juvenile foreign policy most succinctly stated "friends over infra." In practice, this philosophy is more correctly "friends over infra, but not politics." And that is the entire problem with this sandbox mentality: Alliances are political entities, treaties are political unions, war is political. Any alliance--witness: even the VE--which pursues a foreign policy tainted by unions based or maintained solely upon friendship is doomed always to be leaving a friend out in the cold when the clouds of war gather.

The Solution

Alliances must learn to embrace their true nature as political entities. Alliance leaders must learn restraint in which friends should be just that, and which friends also have the political continuity to also be allies. Not every friend can be an ally.

The result of this is laid out in part in my last blog "Irreparable Damage" so titled due to OsRavan's hyperbolic claim that this cornerstone of Justitian philosophy is doing irreparable damage to Digiterra:

The result of Justitian ideology is a world where alliances and blocs form distinct identities. They have distinct, intrinsic ideologies, beliefs, and values, and from that seed of identity they grow natural allegiance to some alliances, and natural animosity toward others. They ally themselves based on political relationships that grow out of identity-based amity. These natural allies have a vested interest in the success and defense of each other, and will defend each other with conviction and dedication. Unencumbered by no (or few) illogical, friendship-only, or convenience-based treaties, these alliances or blocs are free to go to war when war is called for, or free not to go to war when war is not called for.

While OsRavan's claim was silly in context, it is true. And it is not until alliances begin to adopt it that the global stagnation created by "friends over infra" will end.

This week, the Viridian Entente has finally come to that realization, has grown the backbone to act upon it, and has faced the hard reality of life in the political arena. For its step into the future--however late--VE deserves praise. I praise VE for its decision. And I call upon all the world to look to VE's example. We can break the logjam if we are all brave.

Schattenmann

Ok, so, as is often the case, a discussion about politics turned into a discussion about Schattenmann; it's a cross I bear for celebrity :smug: But I find politics more interesting than Schattenmann, and I don't like to de-rail, so, ta-da!: blog.

You mooks sit around complaining about how boring things are and about how you can't do anything; members of MK and their allies have the audacity to open threads and go on diatribes about how moralists are tying their hands at every turn; anyone with a brainstem knows it's a load, but then again no one ever accused folks from the lulz alliances of deep political thinking, so it gets applause.

Well, here we are! Again. Yet again. Who's treaties are the ties that bind? Who is holding everything up? Who is stumbling all over each other to pull together enough red herring DoWs and pre-empts to keep everything, everything, at a standstill again?

You're running scared. You're all pathetic. Big damned heroes and sooooo smug until you have to face the reality of your own house of cards; not one of us out here looking in is impressed. What an embarrassment!

I'm going to ramble at you... and everything I say is obviously my opinion of you and your points not hard fact ;:end disclaimer::

I like how the rage is always coming from people not involved in the incident in question and in your case not even indirectly tied.

I just want to stop right here with the "rage" thing. I get this a lot, AirMe and some other folks in a ~very exclusive~ :rolleyes: IRC channel from time-to-time give me a ribbing over my being angry, and we all have a laugh about it.

Let me assure you, I'm "animated" and "passionate," not "angry." Apparently I'm not good at not sounding angry, so I'll just say that you can tell the difference by whether or not I start calling people mean names, like the other day when I called New Frontier an "ignorant piss" (which I regret now, but oh well).

Other than that, "u mad" by any other means smells as funky. Whether or not I'm "raging" has no bearing on any argument at hand, and pointing it out to try to undermine the content of what I'm saying (or anyone else, really) is silly, in my opinion. Some of my best posts are angry posts :awesome: And if you really want to see angry, you should go around and ask folks for some of my embassy posts or private messages.

What exactly is the issue? Now is your issue specifically int/lsf? If it is, i'll just go back to ignoring you and you can go back to raging and rattling the OWF saber and attacking me, int, whoever. Since, while you certainly have the right to voice an opinion... said opinion is irrelevant as the issue doesn't even remotely involve you. Rage all you want, and personally i'll only take it as conformation that everyone involved did the right thing. (I think int should be far more concerned about their actions if they ever find themselves in a position where you are actually congratulating them).

Speaking only personally, the day *I* start to worry about an alliance is when they are so weak willed they let OWF ragers and complainers actually dictate their actions or world view. That to me is a sign of a weak alliance. A strong alliance does what they feel is right and if the OWF complains... screw the OWF. Speaking personally, I don't serve ODN to win the support of random OWF alliance. I serve to further *my* memvbers and *my* friends goals, dreams, vision, and morals. Are THEY satisfied? Yes? Then the rest of you can go jump off the nearest bridge for all I care.

Seriously. Every time I read a thread like this i'm always (cue sarcasm) amazed at how the oddest people seem to suddenly care about my alliance or my allies alliance.

I'm trying to cut down on how many quote blocks I have so that this is more readable, I think this section is a complete set of ideas that I'll respond to at once.

The idea that people who aren't directly involved in one situation or another have no stake in that situation and/or have no business talking about it is simply wrong. This is a game (in the IC sense) of global politics, and we all live on this globe; there are very few things that don't mater to everyone; this is all the more true in matters of war.

In this specific situation, the issue is that The International is deliberately ignoring a treaty obligation, and they are now facing a public and private backlash over it. Their highest gov have already publicly admitted to this fact, so while OsRavan may choose to argue it (he may not), I will not reply on that point again. It is a fact, it is confirmed by The International, there is no argument to be had.

You are annoyed that me and ChairmanHal have vocally taken this issue up, along with others. Fine. You think that while we might have the right to do so, we have no business doing so. Wrong. This manoeuvre does in fact directly involve Hal's alliance Valhalla, and it does in fact effect all of us as noted above. Global war effects everyone, and the way that C&G conducts itself concerns everyone.

Ignore the OWF at your own peril. I happen to know personally that writing it off is certainly your prerogative, but it's just not smart. Alliances are made up of people, and those peoples' opinions effect alliances in one way or another, sooner or later.

For example... I have all sorts of issues with how you, Schatt, run an alliance and what I view personally as the a-moral actions of CoJ and Schatt that are causing irreparable damage to the Planet.

Irreparable damage? Yeesh! Sounds bad! Here we go, Schattenboogeymann. At once irrelevant and destroying the world; my own irrelevant power never ceases to amaze me.

I'm not even just saying that for this thread. If I was being honest I actually think your world view is in large part whats wrong with Bob (and the game)and I find it grates on my nerves to even think about. I'm sure you think the same of me. We can debate that on forum or PM sometime if you like.

First, let's make sure you (and everyone else out there in TV Land) even know what my world view is.

CoJ is a direct result of the Vox Populi Resistance Movement, a quasi-terroristic campaign waged by Vox Populi against The Continuum and its power superstructure with the aim of increasing both individual freedom (for example for individuals to participate in OWF discussions without fear of endangering their alliance or nation) and inter-alliance freedom (that is, a world with as many power structures as naturally occur, with distinct interests and the freedom [through a more fractured treat web] to pursue them, win, lose, or draw). The charge of Vox Populi's last Vox Dei, Doitzel, as delivered upon the suspension (not disbandment) of Vox Populi operations here (click) is central to Cult of Justitia's mission. As the last remaining post-Vox AA (TJO and TLC having disbanded), CoJ takes this charge all the more seriously.

CoJ seeks to fulfill its mission by first embodying those ideals itself. Foremost in that is our prohibition of compulsive ("M") treaties (which reduce freedom of action and thought). Also to that end are our position that any war is fair game where our interests can be advanced (thus entry in defense of NPO) with or without treaty obligations; vocal and persistent advocacy of our ideals on the OWF; and advocacy of our ideals in foreign embassies.

Far, far to the contrary of your position that CoJ's philosophy is destroying the world is first this: CoJ's philosophy is a fringe philosophy, it has no bearing whatever on global affairs. In the three years since CoJ's founding, the world has in fact started at a point closest to CoJ's ideals, and rapidly moved further and further away from them back to a Pax Pacifica mode of doing things: Massive blocs tied together via masses of treaties; the antithesis of Justitian thought. It is impossible that CoJ's philosophy is destroying the world, because CoJ and only an extremely few other alliances practice it, and none to any degree that has caused an effect on global politics.

The result of Justitian ideology is a world where alliances and blocs form distinct identities. They have distinct, intrinsic ideologies, beliefs, and values, and from that seed of identity they grow natural allegiance to some alliances, and natural animosity toward others. They ally themselves based on political relationships that grow out of identity-based amity. These natural allies have a vested interest in the success and defense of each other, and will defend each other with conviction and dedication. Unencumbered by no (or few) illogical, friendship-only, or convenience-based treaties, these alliances or blocs are free to go to war when war is called for, or free not to go to war when war is not called for.

This is not, as you touched on, a LSF-International thing. Int and LSF are just the current fill-ins for the ever-present variable. In that past I've made the same stand on the Europa-Invicta treaty, or the Mjolnir-DH/PB union, etc etc. Like you, too many people get caught up in who (Schattenmann) is posting, and not what I am saying. I do not care that The Interational is ignoring its treaty because of its illogical, entangled foreign policy, I care that any alliance is doing that or in that situation.

As to your issues with the way I run an alliance or the morality of what we do, that's vague, I can only guess at what you mean.

If you are saying that CoJ is immoral for spying on ODN, get real. Your own allies spy on people (they run CNtel), your own allies have been saying for the past year that more alliances should spy on other alliances.

If you are saying that CoJ is immoral because we "threatened" The Flood Empire, we've been over that. ODN was at war with CoJ, TFE was sending tech to ODN, CoJ told TFE that aiding an alliance at war is an act of war, and asked them to stop or possibly face the reality of their transgression. Telling people the facts of life on Digiterra is not immoral.

If you're saying that CoJ is immoral because we spammed your ODN Applicant AA and informed them that ODN was at war and they should pick a different alliance to join or face war immediately upon acceptance into ODN, again, these were statements of fact.

In all three cases--which upset ODN to no end during our war--my response remains simple and the same that it was since day 1: ODN declared war on CoJ, an organization of 20 nations already at war with GOONS, MK, and Umbrella, in "defense" of MK despite the fact that MK was attacking CoJ and CoJ was not attacking MK. That is not defense, and you worded it that way to avoid a Senate vote on declaring war, or you're just dumb and you don't know the difference between defense and mutual aggression--you cannot defend MK from us if we're not attacking them or planning on attacking them, or you're not dumb, but you were being cute. It doesn't matter which in the end.

Faced with your DoW which you knew we could not physically respond to (and you declared war I'm sure feeling that you would not have to deal with CoJ), CoJ responded as we could. War is war, my friend, and if you don't want to go to war with Cult of Justitia, then do not declare war on Cult of Justitia. Simple as that. And if you do declare war on Cult of Justitia, know this: CoJ will execute any war by any means necessary, excluding nothing except OOC tactics.

If that's not what you were talking about when you say we're immoral, I don't know what you mean.

As for how I run CoJ, if you're talking about my personal style of leadership, that's just, like, your opinion, man. If you're talking about our philosophies, I've covered that.

But I also recognize that's just my personal code of morality, and as long as you arent directly doing anything to my allies or alliance (and dont cross an ooc line) you shouldn't be forced to conform to my view. And I won't go out of my way to try and MAKE people agree with me.

The point of the OWF is to talk about things, to make arguments and convince people. In line with earlier comments, if you don't want to participate, by all means stay home.

Argument is key to politics, and it is not immoral.

On the other hand, if your goal here is less about int/sf specifically and more about raging at the world, I have to disagree with you. Bob is imo clearly multi-polar and ever changing/shifting. Despite the propaganda of some, MK doesnt actually control all that much. The world changes slowly but it changes. And most people take actions for their own reasons not for yours or for MK's or anyone else. You should strive to honestly get what motivates individual alliances not paint people with your brush or try to play back-seat quarterback.

Just as they did in the Pax Pacifica, alliances align themselves to MK's agenda of their own free will; in that sense, MK does not "control" or "rule" anyone any more than NPO did. But the fact of the matter is that regardless of why, MK is steering the boat. I do not believe I have ever stated or implied that MK exercises direct control over anyone, and I'm saying now that they don't have direct control or perhaps even direct involvement in everything that pops up. It is simple fact that MK's victory in Karma, winning personality, and ability to deliver victory (via its network of treaties) mean that MK is the center of the universe. This, uh, "self-leashing" (if you will) is precisely why you will find that I talk about the dogs more than I talk about MK--the dogs are the problem. I took the same position and tack during the Pax Pacifica.

Your problem (in my opinion) is you are trying to force everything into a dualistic frame that suits your purpose and view. But the world is actually far more complex and doens't fit when shoved like that. By trying to make everything (including this) about your crusade of whats wrong with Bob you overlook and dismiss the actual motivations and significances of specific events 'on the ground' so to speak. And you unfairly take away agency from the alliances actually involved.

I do not need to force the world into a dualistic frame, it has fashioned its own dualistic frame. Multiple blocs does not equate to multiple poles; in fact, "Supergrievances" and then DH/PB very deftly avoided the creation of a Continuum-like all-unifying bloc precisely because they knew that while they stayed unified via individual treaties people could say "oh, see, lots of blocs, ergo, lots of poles" but the very second any very large bloc appeared, it would've immediately stirred up a real storm (and of course, yes, they never could quite get over their paranoia toward each other, anyway). At this very moment, this self-leashing is happening as The International "dishonors" (their word) a treaty and lets an ally bur rather than risk breaking the superstructure that has MK at its center (whether MK put itself there or whether MK was put there by all the dogs around it). Along the same lines, Duckroll has, over the years, ignored CB after CB and made compromise after compromise for the same cause. BFF, Checkmate, Stickmen, etc etc--all the same.


So, whew. As many people have told me lately, it's been a long time since there was a good ole fashioned Schattenmann wall of text; I hope this satisfies and that I've made my points without too much rage. I get frustrated and I argue my beliefs because I want what everyone says they want: A more dynamic, faster-paced, genuine, fun Digiterra. The difference is, I will put my butt on the line out here on the fringe to enact it, and I have a plan that we don't already know is broken, unlike this rehash of the Pax Pacifica (albeit with less pomp and legalism).

Source: A Note of Concern and Assistance

Schattenmann

Military Arts

So, has anyone ever registered and earned their Master of Military Arts from Norwich University? Their ads have been on the top of the OWF for a few years and I always wondered about it.

Schattenmann
I am not looking for a response from Schatt

We both knew better. I have rearranged your post to organize it by topic.

You made some rather dashing personal attacks, but you can't demonstrate them and they don't merit response. But this is the part of your post that I most wanted to address.

I blame the entire community for your existance, you are truly the saddest, lonliest piece of souless !@#$ on this planet.

You honestly offer nothing to the community. Your are just a shell of a leader who is closely followed by a band of raving morons who worship the words that spill from your twisted, self-centric mind. You lead a true cult, it just has a stupid name.

I myself am always amused by the people who level attacks that boil down to Schattenmann is a lunatic has-been who is sad, and Cult of Justitia is a bunch of idiots that Schattenmann has hoodwinked into worshiping him. The insult is oxymoronic to begin with, but it is simply put laughable.

To demonstrate once and for all (I say "once and for all" but we know some retard will repeat these insults again, probably while I'm still typing, but let's hope!) the fallacy of this idiotic argument, I have made a list of everyone who has been a member of CoJ (applicants who were rejected are not included) and what their backgrounds were:

Valerius (PresidentKent) NADC: Senator; GATO: Congressman, MoFA

Frederick Bulshara

Sarah Tintagyl NSO: Minister of Propaganda; Noted CNRPer

Freelance____r The Coven

Cloudberry

zfeint

DJTJ7 SUN: MoFA; IDC: MoFA

Angela Spencer

Biff Webster GPA: President, Minister of Membership Compliance; Red Dawn: Red Senator

Limurach

sirdeclan NPO: Tech Corps manager; ACID: Triumvirate

katskip

Hyperbad GPA: Director of Communications

Vic Boss

Jonathan Brookbank GGA: Triumvirate; Vox Populi: Founder (JB did a bunch of other stuff, but he didn't list it in his application)

zarophel (Francesca) MCXA: MoFA; Vox Populi: MCXA sleeper

Thistledown

Jack The Ripper

Vince Sixx

Sitethief Fok: Vice President, MoFA; TOP: Knight Hospitaler, Heptagonist

Subtleknifewielder Second most posts on the OWF

acheron92

Zoot Zoot

ImperatorAzenquor TAB: High Magistrate

Gran TTK: Elder Council

JEDCJT

Paradise

Caprios

Snerval

jsnjcjrbbt

Lynneth

ITDA (Il Terra Di Agea)

IAmSancho

Don Chele GPA: Director of Communications, MoFA

Saarkin

BaronOfBeef GPA: President, Minister of Membership Compliance

Zarfef NSO: Marauder of War

Generalissimo ODN: Second Secretary General of the ODN

Markus Wilding

Lord Rav Greenland Republic: Triumvirate; GPA: MoFA, Dir of the Academy

Earogema (MegaAros) \m/: MoFA, Minister of Finance; TORN: Minister of Recruitment; Vox Populi: Senator, Founder

daggarz Nemesis: Triumvirate; Elysium: Chief Ambassador; TPF: MoC; Rapture: MoD; IPA: Senator

that-one-place ARES: DoD; Nemesis: Triumvirate

Yawoo ODN: Senates 13, 14, & 16, Secy State, MoD; MOON: Secy State, Emperor; Nemesis: Triumvirate, MoIA

Hellenica Founder of CNtel (expelled)

Duckz NPO: -classified-; Carpe Diem: Minister of Finance; The Lost World: Minister of Finance

Shatner

We Are Not Alone

Crazy Crazy Honour: MoFA; Nemesis: DMoFA, DMoIA

Chancellor Patrick

Biohazard DefCon: MoFA; Gondor: DMoFA

Titan

rishnokof RoK: Triumvirate

Ratio

Flyingscotsman Browncoats 1: MoFA; HPS: Founder; IAA: MoD

KingEsus

Sentinal

Stonewall Jaxon NADC: Senator; ACV: MoIA; MHA: DMoFA; Vox Populi: -classified-;

Lola Jones

hozeomaru

Sargun TAB: MoFA; Pendulum: Consul, Regent; PIMP: King; NSO: Marauder of War, Marauder of Economics

Comrade Korey Purge: Triumvirate

Sun WuKong GPA: President, Vice President, Dir of Recruitment; Jade Confederacy: Founder; Old Guard: Triumvirate, Delegate to Citadel, Delegate to Continuum; House Atreides: Dir of Recruiting; GOP: Triumvirate; TOOL: Councillor; Bushido: Daimyo

Kahn (Durim) SSX: Founder; Browncoats: Home Minister; IAA: Academy Headmaster

Awesome Dog GPA: MoD, Vice President

bigdaddychacha ODN: Senate 36, Dep Secy State

zzzptm ACDC: MoFA, Triumvirate; BDC: President, Nueva Vida: Lord of the Interior, Lord of History; Dark Templar: MoFA

For brevity's sake, this list does not include the 31 nations who joined CoJ when Dark Nations Association merged with us, but they include the government and founders of LEN, Silence, and others.

So, when I read some gadfly like MrWuss say that CoJ is nothing more than me being "closely followed by a band of raving morons who worship the words that spill from your twisted, self-centric mind" I am insulted not personally, but on behalf of these people. Sun WuKong, Tri of Old Guard, Delegate to Citadel and Continuum worships me? Ohhhhhh dear. Three Presidents of GPA raving morons? NSO Marauders? TOOL Councillors? Senators and Congressmen of ODN, GATO, NADC, & NAAC? The Vice President of Fok?

My dear Mr Wuss, I dare say that when you insult Cult of Justitia, you insult everyone.

Cult of Justitia is not about me; it's about Justitian ideals. Look at the roster: TPF, NPO, GATO, ODN, NSO, Browncoats 1, Old Guard, RoK, Fok: all enemies of Schattenmann. These are the rulers that for 5 years have ground my nation to dust, and derided me in their time as you do now. They do not worship Schattenmann, how could they? They know his every fault, his every failing.

The Cult of Justitia--Justitia's Cult, not mine--has attracted these many men of many accomplishments by its ideals and its commitment to its ideals. But they never boast (I daresay I will get a fair scolding for boasting on their behalf) because when they enter the Temple of Justice they do so having first read and acknowledged that "This is the altar upon which you place your nation.

In the state of nature, a nation is the property only of its ruler; a ruler is accountable only to himself. As an unaligned ruler, you stand before this altar in the portico to the Temple of Justice as a wild animal.

Before you may pass the threshold, you must outline your qualifications, and verbalize your intentions, but most importantly: acknowledge your new existence as part of a body greater than your own nation, signified by an oath to the Cult"

CoJ was founded immediately upon the dissolution of Vox Populi--the point in my history at which I was more popular and more powerful than at any time before or since; therefore, the point in time at which your accusation might ring most true. And yet, out of the 40 or so Vox, only 1, just 1, came to CoJ. And for weeks we were only two. And then for months we were only 5. And for months more we were never more than 15. And so for over two years, Schattenmann the man has moved further and further from the glory days, and yet more and more men who have done greater things than I, men who've had more power than I, men who've ZI'ed me have joined Justitia's Cult. There is no Cult of Schattenmann, that time passed a long, long time ago. Justitia's Cult and Justitian ideals tower over Her Presbyter.

I am humbled with every new application, and I am reminded that this is the Cult that Justitia built. Lonely? No, I am privileged to be in the company of some of Digiterra's greatest.

Schattenmann

Ask me anything

I'm working on a thread in the vein of Hawk's unrealized project, so I invite you all to "ask me anything" over the next couple days. Questions that are chosen will be answered in the thread, not here.

For reference, I've been around for ~5 years, been a member in GOONS; operative in Hidden GOONS while a member of RoFL, Purge, Browncoats, and TOP; a founding member of Vox Populi and later host of Vox's weekly news journal This Week in Pacifica; and then founded Cult of Justitia. http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Schattenmann

Happy hunting.

Schattenmann

While kingzog's Zog Blog has been chronicling his frustrated (and -ing) efforts to create a new super-duper, lightening-fast, liquid-cooled, impossibly-small 1337 computer, here in Schloss Eggenberg I have just spent the last couple hours on this baby:

100_0867.jpg

For those of you who are less than 20 years old and not a hipster, that thing on the top is a record player. The black disc on top has grooves with bumps in them, the arm extended over it has a needle which translates the bumps into sound. Right now, it's playing a Queen album. The album's case aptly proclaims "No synthesizers!" on the back.

Beneath it, a much newer tuner routes input from radio (signals that fly through the air), the record player, and the tape deck beneath it. The large wheel on the right of the black box controls the volume, you spin it left or right to increase or decrease the volume. Yes, if I want to turn it up, I have to physically walk to the machine. If I get back to my seat and it's too loud, I will walk back to the setup and turn it the other way again. The vibrations from my footsteps there and back will cause slight distortions in the signal the record player send to the tuner as the needle is effected by them.


Okay, let me stop being a smug ass now. I just really love this and wanted to show you guys.

The best is yet to come, though!

100_0868.jpg

Why, yes, that is a reel-to-reel player! I haven't got space for it where everything is, but I can't wait to get it set up, too. I have a BeeGees tape that I want to listen to on it, lol.

Look at its interface!

100_0870.jpg

Beautiful.

Anyone else out there still regularly use a record player or reel-to-reel?

Schattenmann

Wow. So much sacrifice.

KQCAt.jpg

Prior to this WE followed SF on every errand it ever ran including some things that were, to be honest, rather stupid.

Oh, I can't at all let this one go. I mobilized my alliance to roll Ragnarok's enemies on less notice than 24 hours on multiple occasions. I did this out of love, and loyalty, and because Hoo and you and others had no one else that could have your back in that way. I watched MA come into being and I safeguarded and watched over it like a hawk, making absolutely sure no one got within inches of it without feeling a great deal of pain. I hesitated in welcoming RoK to SF due to your CDT ties but very, very rapidly made a brother in Hoo - someone that had a little more swagger, and a little more carelessness - than most of SF. Someone I could enjoy, and did enjoy, many years of politicking and warring with. And always, ever always, RoK behind him. His baby. Kait can ruin it. You can tell lies. But neither of you can claim with a straight face that we dragged you on stupid errands. The stupid things SF did, as others consider them to be, were usually done with the full consent of all involved - and usually spearheaded by me/GOD and Hoo/RoK. After he left, if anything, you personally were the one supporting and egging on stupid moves - as attacking UINE would have been, as it would've handily destroyed your own ally and their entire sphere. You, more than anyone, told Ego that was a good idea and should be done immediately. You, who instead of having your allies back, didn't even know who to contact in Polar when it came time to bring them into the mediation and back up UINE's stupidity. I had to go get people. Because I actually know Polar, and you just played at being their ally while stabbing them in the back.

I don't know how you proverbially get out of bed in the morning, but I'm glad it's no longer mine. Honestly.

Source: Joint Val/NoR/DT/Asgaard/RoK announcement

Schattenmann

Sardonic found out later that day there was more to the story of why we washed our hands of that arrangement, and it had little to nothing to do with Avalon, 4 wars, or nukes (you can look back to the thread if your curious, I think I pretty much gave a clear illusion there). It was cleaned up though, so sorry for the lack of dirty laundry.

Source: Progression of Terms

I love primary documents.

Whether you were ~already~ going to make a separate peace with Avalon before you decided nukes in a war you declared were escalation, you threatened to derail a month's worth of peace negotiations when Avalon fought back against your giggling, bandwagoning tails.

[20:18:15] <Impero[VE]> hey you around by any chance?

[20:24:29] <xoin> I am

[20:25:15] <Impero[VE]> wonderful

[20:25:21] <Impero[VE]> are you avalon gov by any chance?

[20:25:30] <xoin> that to

[20:25:48] <xoin> Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs

[20:25:48] <Impero[VE]> great

[20:26:24] <Impero[VE]> just wanted to let you guys know that we will not be partaking in the agreement you worked out with MK et all

[20:26:46] <Impero[VE]> and will be working out a seperate peace with you guys ourselves

[20:27:05] <xoin> alright

[20:28:09] <xoin> will throw that into the group

[20:29:26] <xoin> anything else I could help you with?

[20:29:32] <Impero[VE]> im not sure why you guys thought it was a good idea, once the agreement to 21 days then white peace was in place with MK, to come out of pm for the first time all war and hit a bunch of our nations who have been rebuilding :x

[20:30:03] <Impero[VE]> to be honest i expected better since warriorconcept thinks so highly of you all

[20:30:21] <Impero[VE]> but yea, ill get in touch with you all once we figure out what we are looking for

[20:30:55] <xoin> sure

[23:42:29] <Goldie[VE]> are you around?

[23:42:38] <xoin> yes

[23:43:44] <Goldie[VE]> ok, i believe a mutual white peace can be reached before we escalate this even further. with the agreement nearly in place between DH and NPO our front becomes unnecessary

[23:43:59] <Goldie[VE]> i would of course need the approval of impero, lord of VE before we can officially agree on anything

[23:44:32] <Goldie[VE]> but i think it would be a good idea, if you are agreeable to such a proposition, that we cease fire between each other and allow the process of peace to commence

[23:44:42] <xoin> would recommend to talk to our MoFA about that http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=173199

[23:45:33] <Goldie[VE]> does he come on IRC?

[23:45:44] <xoin> rarely

[23:47:11] <Goldie[VE]> can you get a hold of him? i dont believe we can go ahead with a cease fire, and any possibility of a white peace will most likely end if you escalate this front further than was done last night, by firing nukes after update tonight

[23:47:46] <xoin> will see if I can contact him

[23:47:47] <Goldie[VE]> so time is therefore somewhat of the essence

[23:47:55] <Goldie[VE]> if he can come on irc it would be best

[23:48:23] <Goldie[VE]> in light of that, if you can communicate this offer to him, and have him then contact his members and tell them to stand down it would be the way to contain this

[23:48:28] <Goldie[VE]> and i can do the same with our members

[23:49:06] <Goldie[VE]> if you can just tell the nations not to fire their nukes or do other attacks until VE has a chance to talk to your MoFA

[23:49:11] <Goldie[VE]> it would help the process

[23:49:20] <Goldie[VE]> and i can do the same with VE's engaged nations

[23:49:56] <xoin> will try to drag him to IRC ASAP

[23:49:59] <Goldie[VE]> the wars that were declared last night go nuclear tonight after update, and i believe once those nukes get fired that it will singify the end of our willing to grant a white peace

[23:50:51] <Goldie[VE]> to confirm, this is your nation, right? http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=175163

[23:50:55] <Goldie[VE]> in case i cant find you on irc

[23:51:13] <xoin> yes thats mine

[00:31:03] <Goldie[VE]> any luck?

[00:31:32] <xoin> nope so lets hope he checks his email today

[00:31:42] <xoin> pretty sure he will

[00:31:59] <Goldie[VE]> for the sake of making this easy, can you have your nations engaged with us not launch their nukes tonight

[00:32:02] <Goldie[VE]> and we can do the same

[00:32:10] <Goldie[VE]> if we cant find an agreement, they can fire them tomorrow

[00:32:21] <Goldie[VE]> but in good faith, lets order a limited cease fire

[00:33:34] <xoin> would love to do it but I'm not allowed to

[00:34:22] <Goldie[VE]> well im going out in about 30 mins, and i dont know if impero will be around, so i dont getthe message out before then, its not going to happen

[00:34:47] <Goldie[VE]> and if our guys get nuked tonight we're not going to exit the war with a white peace agreement

[00:35:08] <Goldie[VE]> the possibility of reps, and the necessity for something more tangible than a simple white peace appears

[00:46:25] <Goldie[VE]> i have told our guys to hold off and wait for our word, i suggest you do the same so that we can avoid weeks, maybe months of war and potentially messy negotiations after

Schattenmann

Sovereignty

I'm just slightly curious: who the hell are any of you to criticize the inner-workings of the relationship between Europa and Invicta? If I didn't know any better, I'd say that you might be wanting to try and interfere with our sovereignty. Fun stuff.

Dear everyone,

Please look up the word sovereignty in a dictionary before attempting to talk to me about sovereignty.

That is all.

Thank you.

PS. If you feel OWF discussion about politics is interfering with your ability to control your own alliance, then you have bigger problems than the OWF.

Schattenmann

OsRavan has suddenly and inexplicably started claiming that it is CoJ which has rejected peace, not ODN who has refused it, in flat contradiction to all reality. Because some people are not as smart as others, rather than depend on everyone to understand that Os just now started making this claim after taking a public punch on the nose and it's fishy, I will provide here for you all the exact terms which OsRavan proposed himself, and which CoJ accepted.

<Schattenmann> You rang

<OsRavan[ODN]> mmmm?

<Schattenmann> <TCK> you need to talk to odn as well

<Schattenmann> <TCK> they want a lulz term

<Schattenmann> <Schattenmann> About what?

<Schattenmann> <Schattenmann> Oh

<OsRavan[ODN]> ohh yes i had pointed out to tck that coj (and legion though thats neither here nor there) hadnt ironed out their terms with odn yet

<OsRavan[ODN]> in particular the lulz term

<Schattenmann> We will be happy to meet ODN in the middle as was done here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=55878

<Schattenmann> 4. Sunstar shall issue a statement in reply to this post. The nature of that statement shall be a compliment to Schattenman on his prowess as a news reporter and the elegance of his bow tie. The statement must include the following words: muscular, charming, monochromatic, ointment, and platypus.

<Schattenmann> 5. Schattenman must also issue a similar statement. This statement shall compliment Sunstar on his superior warring abilities and the quality of his fusion energy production. It must include the words: navel, porcupine, and quartzy.

<OsRavan[ODN]> bassicaly what im looking for is surrender, no re-entry if that is relavent, and some lulz term im happy to compromise on what. something orangey though. a haiku, a review. whatever

<OsRavan[ODN]> hmmm no im not good with that. by returning the favor it makes it seem like a pure white peace. im not trying to make you slave at this. ;:shrugs;: it can be as simple as a haiku

<OsRavan[ODN]> i suppose it doesnt have to be written either if you can think of a suitable alternative

<OsRavan[ODN]> assuming writing is the issue

<Schattenmann> And why shouldn't it be a white peace?

<OsRavan[ODN]> because as far as im concerned we won. if you dont feel we have won then clearly, from our perspective, we have more warring still to do

<OsRavan[ODN]> im not looking to rape you with terms. As I think should be clear

<OsRavan[ODN]> we are not fans of overwhelming, cruel, or draconian reps. but we are beleivers that there are winners and losers in war and that needs to be recognized

<Schattenmann> No. only to embarrass us

<Schattenmann> There is no one that does not already recognize that' we've lost

<OsRavan[ODN]> its only embaressing if you make a big deal out of it. it can and should be fun

<OsRavan[ODN]> im happy to work with you to find a version that will not be embaressing

<Schattenmann> I agree, and I think you should have as much fun as CoJ

<OsRavan[ODN]> if that means writing less, the subject matter you write on, something that isnt written at all. whatever

<OsRavan[ODN]> all that im willing to work with you on so you dont feel embaressed

<OsRavan[ODN]> if you dont want to write anything in particular maybe you all write in orange font for a week when posting on the owf?

<OsRavan[ODN]> ;;shrugs;; feel free to throw some ideas out at me

<OsRavan[ODN]> i think you will find that most neutral parties will find the odn term offers to you rather reasonable

<Schattenmann> Os, ODN is not entitled to anything. You have suffered no losses, you have nothing to make up for except maye time you spent writing a DoW that was pointless to begin with. There is no reason to ask for anything, and there is no reason for CoJ to give you anything

<Schattenmann> As such, since you want us to line up and all shake hands little league-style with some goofing off, I see no harm in doing that with ODN as a partner

<OsRavan[ODN]> its not our fault your side... primarily legion in this case... chose not to fight. Nor am i trying to pressure you to leave the battlefield. if you want to keep fighting until you feel we have 'suffered' enough then by all means go ahead. You will find ODN wont care in the slightest. If you want to resolve this then you can work with me. Youve heard what we need. Im quite happy to work

<OsRavan[ODN]> with you on the details so it is not something you find embaressing

<Schattenmann> An admission of defeat is proof enough of its reality, anything else is toppings

<OsRavan[ODN]> throw out suggestions of something fun coj doesnt mind doing

<Schattenmann> CoJ will do anything the ODN will do

<OsRavan[ODN]> ODN in your situation would be more then willing to do what i am asking of you. but we are not in your situation

<Schattenmann> Deliver us a crate of oranges and we'll write a haiku about them

<OsRavan[ODN]> what does delivering you a crate of oranges entail?

<Schattenmann> X. The ODN will deliver to CoJ one crate of oranges Y. CoJ will compose a haiku about said oranges

<OsRavan[ODN]> yes but what in a pracitcal sense does delivering you a crate of oranges entail?

<OsRavan[ODN]> i.e a link to the oranges?

<Schattenmann> Post a picture of a crate of oranges in reply one and we'll post a haiku in reply 2

<OsRavan[ODN]> so you post a haiku on a picture of oranges we post in the peace thread?

<OsRavan[ODN]> im fine with that

<Schattenmann> See how easy that was

<OsRavan[ODN]> i could say the same to you

<OsRavan[ODN]> are you going to throw a fuss over the word surrender in these terms like whats their face?

<OsRavan[ODN]> or can we consider this done pending the odn senate approving and you getting terms with mk

<Schattenmann> Why would I care about temporal terminology when Justitia always wins?

<OsRavan[ODN]> its that attitude that makes people insist on lulz terms you know, right/

<Schattenmann> People's own egos make them insist on lulz terms

<OsRavan[ODN]> the reason lulz terms are so common is because without them too many losing alliances then go back and claim they 'won' due to a lack of terms

<OsRavan[ODN]> thats the historical reason why they are so common these days

<OsRavan[ODN]> ill do an official draft so you can look at what was posted and give your ok though

<Schattenmann> CoJ has offered to surrender three times since hostilities began and ODN has refused each one pending total peace. If that's still your assertion then sure, the negotiations may be over but the war is not until it is

<OsRavan[ODN]> yes and yes

<OsRavan[ODN]> we will not even be voting on your terms until after you have secured a perliminary agreement with mk

<Schattenmann> As long as you understand that and we don't get a bunch of "you attacked after our agreement!" if we launch further attacks

<OsRavan[ODN]> not at all, attack away

<OsRavan[ODN]> though btw since we are giving warnings.

<OsRavan[ODN]> i should also warn you that if you actually follow through on your threats to TFE or our applicant aa these terms may be changed

<Schattenmann> Sure, you've made that clear and we acknowledge it. Besides, the 25th day has done more damage to TFE than we could have

<Schattenmann> And the spam to App was just that ;)

<OsRavan[ODN]> thats to be expected in any invasion alliance. theyve been moderatly sucessfull in meeting my expectations so far

<OsRavan[ODN]> most expectations i should say

<Schattenmann> Make the other TFE merge into them

<Schattenmann> wait

<Schattenmann> that's TPE

<OsRavan[ODN]> tpe are good people and a very solid alliance

<OsRavan[ODN]> i dont think you need to worry about them losing many members to disbanding

<Schattenmann> I don't have any TPE-wide opinions

<Schattenmann> KingEd on the other hand should definitely have waited until after TPE was bigger than CoJ to call CoJ an irrelevant micro

<OsRavan[ODN]> heh tpe doesnt have much fear in them

<Schattenmann> Not as a matter of fear, just as a matter of not being silly

<Schattenmann> You've gotta stop reading everything I say as a threat if we're going to make this relationship work :3

<OsRavan[ODN]> heh, I would be surprised if we develop much of a healthy relationship. No offense attended. I don't read everything you say as a threat so much as I do a potential propoganda attempt on the OWF.

<OsRavan[ODN]> potential thread for down the line take a look before i share it with others

<OsRavan[ODN]> After long months of war, ODN is pleased to announce a cessation of hostilities with CoJ based on the below terms.

<OsRavan[ODN]> 1) CoJ admits defeat and surrenders to ODN

<OsRavan[ODN]> 2) CoJ will not re-enter the current conflict or any wars resulting from the current conflict (this includes the NPO-Doomhouse front). This also includes sending aid to Alliances at war.

<OsRavan[ODN]> 3) CoJ shall write a haiku praising these ODN oranges: Fresh Oranges for CoJ

<OsRavan[ODN]> term 2 will obviously be removed if there is no war going on when it comes time to post this

<OsRavan[ODN]> is what i posted above good with you?

<Schattenmann> I think it would make more sense as I prposed it, <Schattenmann> X. The ODN will deliver to CoJ one crate of oranges Y. CoJ will compose a haiku about said oranges

<OsRavan[ODN]> its simpler to do as i suggested. if you need the world odn delivered oranges i can do that

<Schattenmann> Thus 3) ODN shall send one crate of oranges to CoJ 4. CoJ shall send ODN a haiku about those oranges

<OsRavan[ODN]> 3) ODN sends CoJ a crate of oranges: Fresh Oranges for CoJ and expects a haiku praising them in return.

<Schattenmann> Since you don't want it to sound like white peace, you could even get all snarky and say "ODN shall send a crate of oranges to the starving nations of CoJ" or something condescending

<OsRavan[ODN]> no one is trying to be condescending though

<OsRavan[ODN]> the edited one i put above work for you?

<Schattenmann> Alright then 3) ODN sends CoJ a crate of oranges: Fresh Oranges for CoJ and in return CoJ will write a haiku about them.

<OsRavan[ODN]> fair enough.

<OsRavan[ODN]> Understand by the bye that the rest of our gov will need to debate and discuss this andd my word is not fully binding

<Schattenmann> Sure

<OsRavan[ODN]> i assume you understand that actually considering you already went to the senate ::amuswed::

<Schattenmann> So, two weeks? :P

<OsRavan[ODN]> whenever you work things out with mk

<Schattenmann> ...that was a Senate joke

While CoJ understood that as the head of a representative domcracy, Os could not guarantee this is what the end terms would look like, we also understood that it was the Senate that would look over them. Os confirmed this <OsRavan[ODN]> Understand by the bye that the rest of our gov will need to debate and discuss this andd my word is not fully binding

Instead, OsRavan posted the terms for his entire membership--340 people ill-acquainted with everything that has been going on--not "the rest of gov." The result of this was exactly what anyone might expect, people with axes to grind started asking for things, and the squeaky wheel got greased.

blog1.gif

blog2.gif

OsRavan now claims that he must honor the will of people like this, but what about the rest?

lulz01.png

phryss_app2.png

No, OsRavan is representing the segment of thought that he wants, nothing more, nothing less.

After 8 days of alliance-wide discussions, Os returned to CoJ with this answer:

<OsRavan[ODN]> so i took what we talked about back to the alliance. ::shrugs;; I under-estimated the dislike with your and coj's conduct in this war though. The feeling was very strong that an apology to TFE is needed. The goal is not to publicly humiliate you. It can be a private apology with no one outside aware. But we do need an apology. Or atleast an admitance that your behavior to them (and our applicant aa btw) was inappropriate

<OsRavan[ODN]> on a side note if you want to drop the lulz term we can. IT was also decided that those sort of terms are reserved for opponents we consider to have behaved honorably on the field of battle. Such as in this war, for us, MCXA, Legion, etc. That does not include you in our perspective, and that term can be dropped if you so desire

--In fact, the lulz term was dropped because Os's membership told him it was stupid, just like I told him.--

<Yawoo> Yeah, no it wasn't

<Schattenmann> Why do you think that it was inappropriate?

<OsRavan[ODN]> you threatening our applicants and our proctectorate? Empty threats I might add. I found it lacking because, finding yourself in a losing war, you proceeded to attempt to spin propoganda and verbally bully neutral parties in order to mdake up for your lack on the battlefield. Now you are certainly allowed to do this as you are allowed to do anything. But for every action there is consequences. Your repeated threats and

<Yawoo> Since I was the one speaking with them, no I did not threaten them

<Yawoo> I warned them

<Schattenmann> What's neutral about a party that is aiding your war effort?

<OsRavan[ODN]> threats were most certainly issued to both the applicant AA and to our protectorate by both CoJ and 64 on the OWF and via IRC. I will also add 1) they were tech dealing with nations not at war not 'aiding' a war effort. 2) We do not recognize any moral ambiguity in tech dealing while at war. A stance we have extended towards our enemies in multiple wars now. 3) Regardless of your feelings on the matter, it does

<OsRavan[ODN]> not excuse your threats or hostile actions. And tbh I saw you operating not out of any conviction but out of an attempt to sow disunity between us and our friends

<OsRavan[ODN]> You have clearly demonstrated in the course of the war that your goal was to get an edge. No matter what. No matter whether your actions would be considered appropriate or not. And again, I can respect that atttidude. But when it does not pay off, it comes with consequences

The spam in question?

To: lazyox From: Schattenmann Date: 4/21/2011 7:45:43 PM

Subject: Impending attack

Message: I wish to inform you that the ODN is currently involved in an unjust war of aggression against my alliance Cult of Justitia.

I feel it only fair to you to notify you of this point because I imagine that when ODN's recruiters sent you promises of prosperity, growth and aid, they probably did not tell you about the war, and as an ODN applicant, you are subject to attack by CoJ; target lists have been made.

CoJ nations are small because of the long war, yours are small because they are new--ODN's large nations won't be able to counter-declare on us, we are out of their range; they cannot help you.

We don't want to attack nations that have been tricked into joining ODN without knowledge of the war. Attacks will not commence for 4 days, anyone that has removed "ODN Applicant" as their alliance affiliation by then will not be attacked.

You can find many honest alliances to join here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showforum=24

Any alliance can teach you, only ODN promises war.

Highly inappropriate to be sure.

I have explained my reluctance to apologize for this spam and for my conversations with The Flood Empire on the natural fact that is an act of war to aid an alliance at warvery clearly:

Apologize for telling a new alliance that aiding another alliance at war is an act of war? Why should I? Admit that it was inappropriate to approach a sovereign alliance about their aid to another alliance at war? It wasn't. Admit it was inappropriate to spam ODN Applicant with a message that said we consider them part of ODN and liable to attack? Why? None of those actions is inappropriate or some brand new thing I made up; they're are statements of fact, and I cannot apologize for fact or make fact inappropriate by stating it.

Despite this inability to apologize because we have done nothing wrong, when the Doomhouse coalition presented this article as part of the coalition surrender, Cult of Justitia endorsed the terms.

Apology

CoJ recognizes that their actions in this war, including the infiltration of a spy into ODN, and the threatening/misleading of the ODN applicant pool and ODN protectorate were wrong. CoJ hereby apologies for said behavior.

This article, and the rest of the document, have been agreed to by every alliance on NPO's side of the war, but delays still continues in spite of our willingness to these absurdities because alliances on Doomhouse's side keep changing the terms--after not participating in negotiations for 2 months, LOST showed up with last minute revisions after NPO-side signatures were collected. On and on. As far as CoJ is concerned the terms are made and agreed upon.

All this notwithstanding, Cult of Justitia made official inquiries to surrender on March 9, March 24th, and April 14th which were all flatly denied. Meanwhile, during this period, when asked by members of his government whether anyone had tried to surrender, OsRavan replied in the negative, assuring them that CoJ had no desire to surrender, keeping his members and government in the dark about the truth. Now he continues in his habit of lies about our intentions with these easily-disproven claims that CoJ has refused to surrender.

Schattenmann

I started my nation in Feb 07 when I saw the link on Fark.com. Irony tag assplodes by the time this blog is over.

I didn't read the Fark thread about the link, though, so I wasn't really aware that there was a Fark alliance or that they were in the deathgrip of a war with GOONS. In fact, I wasn't really aware of any alliances; I knew there were alliances, but I didn't see any reason to join one, I just collected taxes every day. I never got techraided because I never bought tech--why buy something so expensive :v:

My manager was also playing, and he got raided one day in August, so he decided to join an alliance (MHA). I found out there was a GOONS alliance, so I joined it. I wasn't a forum goon, but I had been enthralled by Yablonski's tales of North Appleton for 4 years by that point, and SA was generally hilarious. y boss suggested Fark since we joined because of Fark, but I figured I had been reading SA since 2001, but Fark only since 2007, so I went with GOONS.

I joined right in the middle of ModGate and the Moldavi Rebellion, and everyone in #goonrush was constantly talking about some guy named Ivan LOLdavi and people were all the time linking their QQQQQQQ posts on the OWF, so I began reading the OWF and really playing the game for the first time a full 6 months after first starting my nation.

Unfortunately, I joined GOONS just in time for GOONS to get the ever loving snot kicked out of it by NpO, GGA, and cronies, the forum (GOONS forum) was deleted in Novemeber like 2 weeks after I got masked out of the bootcamp, etc etc--it was a crummy time to join. When Alastor and banned member took over (there;s two people I miss), they had a lot of us fake surrender so we could spy, so I did that and had a lot of fun for a while. When they made a new forum they wanted everyone's SomethingAwful forum acct name, so I finally bought an account for me and also one for Naguchanzilla. I primarily went ahead and registered on the SA forums after so many years so that in the future Sardonic would be able to cite my post count and call me not a real goon.

Why did you become a GOON?

Schattenmann

Zanga zanga

I eat lunch at a little North African joint called al-Kawthar about twice a week. I like the food, so I had already been eating there a lot, but they play al Jazeera on the TV so since the protests I've been eating there a lot more ot catch the news. It's never very busy (I actually think they're in pretty dire straits) so it's usually just me and the cook sitting in the lobby watching TV while I eat.

Today they were showing a lot of coverage of Libya and also a bit of protests in Aman, Jordan. It got back to Libya and there were split heads and some guy that didn't know what he was doing blowing himself up with a mortar (which I'm surprised we haven't heard more of, it's bound to happen when the national armories get busted wide open by civilians even if the avg Libyan man has 6 mos service under his belt) and lots of 28 Days Later style mobs sprinting through the streets. Then it went over to a still of Gaddafi with some bullet points about him (I don't read or speak Arabic, I'm blissfully unaware) and I said to the cook "you know say what you will but the guy knows how to dress."

2009924gaddafi2.rockymountainnewscom.jpg

And she says "He's crazy!" And I said, "yeah but look at those clothes!" So, she says, "Have you seen 'Zanga zanga'?! It's song."

"About him?"

"No! Against him! It's funny you should look it up on theeeee nets."

So, I did:

I wish Admin would turn on the media code <_<

It's Gadaffi's speech from last week remixed remixed and put on a British track.

Personally, I know it's supposed to be funny, and I know that Arabs and people all over are cracking up, but I can't laugh at it. A "shibber" is a hand-length (20 cm), and "zanga" is alley. Gadaffi has asked his supporters to go shibber shibber and zanga zanga--foot by foot and street by street and house by house--killing every protestor, and while the East may be secure, in Gadaffi's zones of control he's doing just that. It's possible that the words have been mixed around such that he's been made to say something else, but--not speaking Arabic--I can't tell.

But, either way, thought I'd share the video with everyone.

Schattenmann

I've been getting a lot of question about CNTC so hopefully I can get you all off my back.

CN Trade Centre is no more. The owner moved halfway across the world and CTNC was not one of the things he decided to keep.

CNTC was probably the most revolutionary tool to be developed since MFO's calcs. It put a powerful trade tool into the hands of the individual. Unfortunately, by the time we shut it down, pea-brained "trade coordinator" bureaucrats had managed to destroy its usefulness the same way they've done with every other trade hub: By refusing to follow the rules and clogging it with hundreds of nations who had no idea they had been registered, had no intention of joining the circle when notice came, and ceased to exist two weeks after these little badge-wearers had done their dirty deed.

For those of you who benefited from CNTC, I'm glad you got the experience, and thanks for being part of the success of the system. For those of you who registered any nation other than your own, jump off a cliff. No, seriously. For those of you who got burned, I'm sorry that a few numbskulls screwed it up for everyone; we tried our best to keep the circles clear of ghosts, but we were literally facing hundreds a month.

Smithy, MrWhite, and OcUK, you did a huge service. This was a masterpiece the likes of which I doubt we'll see again. Thank you for doing it for all of us, and thanks for letting me have a hand in helping.

Schattenmann

~The Callout~

What a silly man

[21:23] * Triyun sets mode: -b Crymson

[21:23] * Eddy[NPO] is now known as EddyH

[21:24] * Crymson|AWAY has joined #nsa

[21:24] * WickedJ sets mode: +b Crymson

[21:24] * Crymson|AWAY was kicked by Sentinel (Goodbye)

[21:24] <EddyH> :D

[21:24] <&Jasmine> lol WickedJ

[21:24] <%WickedJ> Why yes, i am a monster

Later:

Session Start: Thu Feb 17 21:14:58 2011

Session Ident: Crymson|AWAY

[21:14] Session Ident: Crymson|AWAY (Coldfront, WickedJ)

[21:14] <Crymson|AWAY> Why is it you just did that?

[21:16] <Crymson|AWAY> Never mind, false alarm.

[21:16] <Crymson|AWAY> I'd thought it was you.

[21:22] <Crymson|AWAY> Oh, it was you. Well, I'm sorry you've such a childish predilection towards needing to bully people.

[21:23] <Crymson|AWAY> But I guess it's your call if you want to be a little !@#$%*, Joey :)

[21:23] <Crymson|AWAY> Oh, sorry. It's Joseph.

Session Close: Thu Feb 17 21:56:34 2011

[22:39] * bakamitai sets mode: -b Crymson

[22:39] * Crymson[TOP] has joined #nsa

[22:41] <%WickedJ> ;-;

[22:41] <Crymson[TOP]> Ya.

[22:41] <Crymson[TOP]> Wait... I think I'll just put you on ignore now.

[22:41] <Crymson[TOP]> There we og.

[22:41] <Crymson[TOP]> *go

[22:41] <%WickedJ> :awesome:

[22:41] <Crymson[TOP]> Bye, Joseph.

[22:46] <BloodFuRy> WickedJ did he just threaten you with an ignore?

[22:46] <%WickedJ> he did :((

[22:46] * %WickedJ sobs

[22:47] <&Jasmine> I'm sure it just breaks WickedJ's heart

[22:47] <%WickedJ> It does

[22:47] <&Jasmine> o noes, words on the webs

[22:47] <BloodFuRy> I think that is the best gift you can ever be given from Crymson.

[22:47] <BloodFuRy> To have him never talk to you again.

Schattenmann

In the past week, I have received [several] PMs and queries from individuals. These individuals all say the same thing: That they are ready to (or have already) joined the reformed Vox Populi, and in doing so they were directed to contact any of the 5 Senators contemporary to the suspension of Vox Populi's charter.

This concerns me chiefly because it represents a security threat to each of these individuals, and most likely to many others unknown to me, in that the 5 last Senators of Vox Populi have neither have any involvement in any reformation of Vox Populi, nor any plans to reform Vox Populi in the near future. As such, any individual that has registered at any forum which he believes to be a new Vox forum has most likely fallen victim to a trap.

I strongly warn all rulers to regard their personal security with utmost care:

1. When registering at any spy-based forum, use a fake email address. Not the fake email you use all over the place, a specific fake email for that specific activity, and that specific activity only.

2. When registering or visiting any spy-related website, use a proxy.

3. When contacting any person on IRC for espionage matters, use a hostmask, rip off your neighbor's unsecured wireless network, or do it from a library or something. Changing your IRC nick from whatever you usually use to a fake nick does not hide your identity; for example, if you are "Impero" and you change your nick to "Funky_Butt_Loving" your hostmask is still the same, and you are still completely traceable.

4. Unless you are ready to sit at ZI or in peacemode for 9 months or more, do not spy.

5. Unless you are ready to sit at ZI or in peacemode for 9 months or more, do not spy.

6. If any person comes to you claiming to represent Vox Populi, a reformed Vox Populi, or the Senate of Vox Populi, at this point in time, they are either misinformed, or lying. If anyone out there is thinking about reforming Vox Populi then the 5 last Senators of Vox Populi have no idea who they are. If it really happens, believe me, you'll know.

7. Unless you are ready to sit at ZI or in peacemode for 9 months or more, do not spy.

8. Everyone needs to understand that CNtel is not a reliable source of information, and that it is a liability to your personal safety. It is packed with MK pranksters and weird harebrained conspiracy-theorists. Do not under any circumstances open PMs on the CNtel forum.

9. Never use the same password on any forum that you use for your nation or for this forum. Prominent members of alliances under attack from Doomhouse and/or VE have been receiving lots of password recovery emails from various other forums and games--make sure that your passwords and email addresses are secure. If there are forums that you do not visit frequently anymore, delete your account, or ask an admin of that forum to delete your account.

Schattenmann

A week or so ago Triyun wrote the blog "The Post Karma Lie of Multi-Polarity." You may have missed it. Like all serious blogs are (as will this one) it was quickly knocked out of sight by the daily swarm of "I'm gay look at me," "What I had for dinner," and "My favorite band" blogs. Ah, well.

I didn't completely agree with the argument as laid out, though the thesis was correct. The idea that there is more than one power pole is a lie. And tonight, with C&G's magnificent acrobatics to join Doomhouse's aggressive war, let now all lies of multipolarity be put to rest.

The simple fact of the matter is that multi-polarity is a lie. Anyone that claims that there are lots of different poles is either lying for some benefit, or is an oblivious idiot. Eyriq from Basketball Ninjas comes to mind.

Right now, it's PB-C&G-DH-SF(If they survive the war and GOD's duplicity) and then a bunch of disparate rag-tag AAs with sloppy foreign policies which just happen to create a big chaining nightmare, not any poles or a second side.

All anyone has to do to see this is read a thread like TGE's declaration of war http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=98249 or any of the surrender threads from the VE curbstomp of Polaris. The alliances supposed to make up the second pole/"side" (I really hate that word but it's the common term recently) all hate each other to the point that they're literally doing the barest minimum in terms of their treaties (those who haven't ignored them) then surrendering to get away and get as much distance from everyone else as possible. There is no second (third, or greater number) pole.

Last night BarbulaM1 remarked that post-war GATO is going to be focusing on really building Synergy; I was aghast. I assume that he knows what he's talking about as a former Assembly Chairman and only recently departed for ODN, but whoever in GATO told him that is an absolute idiot if they think IAA or the rest of Synergy has any interest in strengthening ties with the alliance that hung them out to dry with its surrender.

Many people--smart guys within them included--say that once the war is over Duckroll is going to be a strong second pole or counterweight. Sure, when they feel like it. Their problem is that they are stuck with feet on two ice drifts headed in opposite directions: The old sign-as-many-MDPs-as-possible and the new create-a-small-focused-sphere. Until they plant both feet in the same place, they will continue to be an anachronistic holdover whose allies can count on them for a pat on the back, no less, and certainly no more. But a strong pole? Not hardly. Either way, if anyone thinks Duckroll is big, unified, or smart enough to handle PB-DH-C&G, they're just giving themselves a reassuring hug.

Months ago, I tried to get things going on an independent bloc with some promising AAs from the #stratego channel, noting that with PB then on the horizon, "The sad fact of the matter is that once Pandora becomes the dominant power on Digiterra--and that will be the day the bloc is announced--alliances will begin to align themselves in the Pandora sphere, just as alliances tied themselves to WUT in its time, and Continuum in its. They will trade their values for Pandora's in exchange for security, and they will enable Pandora in exchange for a share in the spoils [reps and gloating]."

Well, here we are. Following the war you can expect a flurry of treaties with C&G and PB alliances. There will be cantankerous cancellations by the alliances which have fought on Polaris' or Pacifica's "sides" leaving those alliances more fractured and vulnerable than before while many of them put on their best crap-eating grins and line up behind those alliances in PB, DH, C&G, and SF that they perceive as big daddies.

And so the march to hegemony will continue on. VE/PB and MK/Doomhouse will pat themselves on the back and laud their strategic acumen, but in reality they have only followed in Papa Orders' footsteps, after all, they can only hope to be as good as the best.

Schattenmann

Hey guys

How's it goinnnnn? I'm good, thanks. I hope everyone's enjoying the war, I know I am.

Nothing really deep or interesting to say, I'm just sick of the dueling war webs knocking interesting blogs off the front page so I figured I'd knock a war web off. Anyone else think that the second two guys should have let well enough alone?