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      Cyber Nations Forum Rules   07/03/2016

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Highlights from WCE: BONUS: upn.txt

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Sardonic

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[23:53] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> fault?

[23:53] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> that there was no war?

[23:53] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I suppose GOONs didn't want one so they accepted money

Oh, Peggy!

It is nice that after pages upon pages of leaking other people's logs, I get to share some of the ones that I have collected personally (interspersed with a few donations from friends, such as the above). Our dealings with UPN have been rather... amusing to say the least. I would like to remind everybody that reads the following that this is the alliance from which the foundation of a war against us was to spring.

To start with, let us go back to a simpler time, when there was little animosity between UPN and GOONS. We dispatch a government member to see about the UOKMB member who has fled to them.

[22:33:31] <Peggy_Sue|AFK> hello

[22:33:53] <DarkSol[GOONS]> hello

[22:34:12] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> You are from Goons asking about an applicant to UPN?

[22:34:19] <DarkSol[GOONS]> Yes.

[22:34:36] <DarkSol[GOONS]> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=313301 <--- specifically, him

[22:34:38] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> What was the reason of war with that 7-man alliance MK4 left?

[22:35:18] <DarkSol[GOONS]> They attacked us because we were GOONS.

[22:36:52] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> on their war list I see they were attacking goons first...but does it go beyond 9-6?

[22:36:58] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I mean, before 9-6?\

[22:38:45] <DarkSol[GOONS]> consulting with higher gov

[22:39:01] <DarkSol[GOONS]> I don't think so, but I don't want to give you a wrong answer

[22:39:08] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> ok. thank you

[22:39:25] <DarkSol[GOONS]> [22:38:56] <Beefspari> 9-6 is when my announcement went up.

[22:39:25] <DarkSol[GOONS]> [22:39:01] <NikolaP> wrong .. idk

[22:39:25] <DarkSol[GOONS]> [22:39:06] <dalstrs> they declare 9-6

[22:39:25] <DarkSol[GOONS]> [22:39:09] <DarkSol[GOONS]> when did their announcement go up?

[22:39:25] <DarkSol[GOONS]> [22:39:16] <Beefspari> Dunno

[22:39:25] <DarkSol[GOONS]> [22:39:19] <Beefspari> 9-6 probably

[22:39:41] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> so they posted a DoW on the cn forum?

[22:40:19] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I found it

[22:41:00] <DarkSol[GOONS]> It really was a DoE/W

[22:45:01] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> ok. so a nation left an alliance that had DoE'd on goons.

[22:45:18] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> you are at war with the alliance, yes?

[22:45:50] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> it looks like it must be getting too hard on individual members...to see one leaving

[22:46:48] <DarkSol[GOONS]> yep

[22:47:02] <DarkSol[GOONS]> he peaced out at update and fled to your alliance

[22:47:28] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> it is reasonable to consider that he'll stay in peace mode if we don't accept him

[22:47:47] <DarkSol[GOONS]> under threat of our attack, probably.

[22:48:02] <DarkSol[GOONS]> you could always tell him that you dont accept people in peace mode... to help us out :P

[22:48:04] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> if GOONs were to consider letting him go, what type of favor would you like to see from UPN, in exchange for MK4?

[22:50:07] <DarkSol[GOONS]> Some sort of reps and a promise that if he attacks us again, you'd be paying reps again.

[22:50:21] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> 100 tech?

[22:51:42] <DarkSol[GOONS]> 15m, due to the fact that he nuked us many times and did far more damage than just 100 tech?

[22:52:54] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I will talk to MK4. He would be the one to pay that rep figure. If he won't then he will not be able to join us. If he does, but ever attacks you again as a rogue I'll boot him. Either way I will let you know... if that works for you all.

[22:54:36] <DarkSol[GOONS]> Sure, if he can pay us the 15mil in reps to join your alliance, we're okay with that.

[22:55:00] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> Thank you for your time.

[22:55:09] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> is your channel cngoons?

[22:55:24] <DarkSol[GOONS]> #cybergoons

[22:55:27] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> thanks

[22:55:31] <DarkSol[GOONS]> And thank you for your time as well.

[22:55:42] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> :)

Things seem to go well, no objections are raised about the price of the rebel in question.

[20:49:43] <DarkSol[GOONS]> please msg me when you come back from AFK

[20:49:50] <Peggy_Sue|AFK> hello

[20:49:55] <DarkSol[GOONS]> hi! :D

[20:50:23] <Peggy_Sue|AFK> Sardonic told me Beefspari would get with me for names to send money to

[20:50:56] <DarkSol[GOONS]> so you guys are going to keep both from UOKMB and they agreed to 15mil?

[20:51:06] <Peggy_Sue|AFK> yep

The amount is accepted, it appears.

[21:54:57] <WARLORD44[uPN-MoD]> DarkSol you around still

[21:56:16] <DarkSol[GOONS]> ya

[21:56:32] <WARLORD44[uPN-MoD]> ok Peggy talked with some other members of GOONS

[21:56:39] <WARLORD44[uPN-MoD]> the deal is still on

[21:57:05] <DarkSol[GOONS]> yeah, thats what i heard, discussed with peggy

[21:57:45] <WARLORD44[uPN-MoD]> 30 Mil and you guys cut the UOKMB guys loose and we will accpet them and i will keep an eye on both

[21:59:58] <DarkSol[GOONS]> yep

[22:01:03] <WARLORD44[uPN-MoD]> ok it was good talking to you DarkSol

[22:01:27] <DarkSol[GOONS]> and you

Everything is going so swimmingly! If only this is where our story had ended...

Problems began to arise, and I can only guess this was when UPN was first corrupted by Schattenmann and others in their in-vain search for cb. They reneged their deal, demanding that we stop pursuing the rogues, inflating a mistaken tech raid to ridiculous heights, and above all else, getting hella hysterical. More and more reports began to come to my desk about UPN's obstinance, and I grew annoyed with how long the process was taking.

Peggy Queried me.

[17:38] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> hello

01[17:43] <Sardonic[GOONS]> hello

[17:43] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> would you be able to meet tomorrow evening?

01[17:43] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I'm not sure why there even needs to be discussion about this issue

01[17:43] <Sardonic[GOONS]> it is cut and dry

01[17:44] <Sardonic[GOONS]> we get 15m for a member (or former member) of UOKMB, we let them go, we don't, we keep attacking

01[17:44] <Sardonic[GOONS]> why does there need to be some long drawn out discussion about this

[17:45] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> UOKMB are not merging with us

[17:45] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> they are taking advantage of missed staggers

[17:45] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> and escaping to peace mode

[17:45] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> they are coming one at a time

01[17:45] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I don't care what AA they are flying, they will be attacked unless they pay up.

[17:45] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I asked if terms were offered

01[17:45] <Sardonic[GOONS]> or, if you want to buy them, you can pay for them

[17:45] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> and was told 2 of them accepted but did not deliver

01[17:46] <Sardonic[GOONS]> well then they must not really want peace

01[17:46] <Sardonic[GOONS]> really peggy, these rogues are taking advantage of your good nature

[17:46] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> Sardonic, I do not call them rogues. They were raided, and one that fought back was nuked for fighting back

[17:46] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> then they, as an alliance declared war on you

[17:47] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I would not call any member of an alliance that DoW'd a rogue

01[17:47] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I don't give a <removed> about the definition, if you recognize them as an alliance, you can understand why we are pursuing them.

01[17:47] <Sardonic[GOONS]> they are criminals, and they will not escape justice.

[17:48] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I will share your words with my cabinet

01[17:48] <Sardonic[GOONS]> okay.

This was my first major discussion of the issue. I was taken aback at Peggy's absurd argument that just because they were in peace mode, taking advantage of failed staggers, that we should just let them go. I laid our position out cleanly and neatly so that there could be no question that we were not okay with letting them go. I thought the conversation had ended here, so I instinctivley closed the window to avoid clutter. Instantly it was opened again, red and blinking as ever.

[17:48] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> On a nother note,

[17:49] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> are you all going to be part of the new Pandora's Box bloc?

01[17:49] <Sardonic[GOONS]> you all being GOONS? probably, if the bloc is finalized.

[17:49] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> yes, your alliance is what I meant.

01[17:49] <Sardonic[GOONS]> yes

[17:50] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I hope to see mercy shown by GOONS to the micro alliances that have been raided in the past and hopefully the future

01[17:51] <Sardonic[GOONS]> If you mean the mercy board, yeah, they can use that.

[17:51] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> no

[17:52] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I mean mercy in terms of stopping the raiding. Raiding one on one is one thing; group raiding 3 on 1 is another

01[17:52] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I know you don't tech raid, but surely you've heard of the target shortages?

01[17:52] <Sardonic[GOONS]> it's quite hard to find a target in these dark ages

[17:52] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> We tech raid

[17:53] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> we don't approve of our members piling up on a raid victim, however

01[17:53] <Sardonic[GOONS]> well if you're complaining about 3v1 raids, you don't do ir right

01[17:53] <Sardonic[GOONS]> it*

01[17:53] <Sardonic[GOONS]> 3v1 is optimal, it grants the highest chance for success

[17:53] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> what about nuking a victim?

01[17:53] <Sardonic[GOONS]> who cares, they are unaligned. There's not much use for unaligneds beyond tech raiding and nuclear testing grounds.

[17:54] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> the UOKMB nation was in an alliance

[17:54] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> he was nuked for fighting back

01[17:54] <Sardonic[GOONS]> no, he was nuked for the fun of it

01[17:54] <Sardonic[GOONS]> but I take your "meaning"

01[17:54] <Sardonic[GOONS]> UOKMB is not an alliance by our analysis.

Peggy wished to start the first of many pointless debates with me about morality and raiding, of which I wasn't very interested in, so I threw in a few barbs. She dropped the issue. The next day I saw my government members getting frustrated, that apparently UPN was turning this into "a thing", and I was not amused. There was a discussion channel made for the hashing out of this incredibly debatable, negotiable issue.

03[13:27] * Now talking in #Peggy

[13:27] <@Peggy_Sue|AFK> Hello Sardonic

01[13:27] <Sardonic[GOONS]> why the <removed> is mandolus here <-- sorry about that mandolus, by the way.

01[13:27] <Sardonic[GOONS]> hello

03[13:27] * Peggy_Sue|AFK is now known as Peggy_Sue|UPN

[13:27] <Canfor|UPN> ok... did you attack UKOMB nation when it was flying that flag

[13:27] <Canfor|UPN> or before it was flying that AA

[13:27] <Mandolus> I was having a reasonable discussion and Peggy invited me in here

01[13:28] <Sardonic[GOONS]> oh

01[13:28] <Sardonic[GOONS]> well whatever

[13:28] <Beefspari[GOONS]> Ktarthan raided UOKMB because they were a legitimate target to raid. But they already had plans to go rogue on someone before that.

[13:28] <nippy[GOONS]> that's what I was asking, Canfor

[13:28] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> ok, so, Ktarthan raided then nuked his target?

01[13:28] <Sardonic[GOONS]> why are we discussing this

[13:28] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> because the target fought back?

[13:28] <nippy[GOONS]> ^this is what I was wondering

[13:29] <nippy[GOONS]> what provoked the nuke

[13:29] <nippy[GOONS]> since we all know Ktarthan wouldn't nuke a raid target for the hell of it.

01[13:29] <Sardonic[GOONS]> who cares how it started, we're at war with these nations, and we will hunt them to the ends of the earth unless we get our money.

[13:29] <Beefspari[GOONS]> Yes, the target didn't try to attain peace through one of the various methods we have available. The guy fought back knowing ktarthan had nukes. So Ktarthan nuked him to defend himself.

[13:29] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> We are discussing this because we do not agree on what is a rogue, what is an alliance, and what is a legitimate raid and what to do with people that flee to peace mode leaving an alliance at war

[13:29] <nippy[GOONS]> this is true

01[13:29] <Sardonic[GOONS]> it doesn't matter what you agree with, we are attacking them if we don't get the money

[13:29] <Beefspari[GOONS]> Why does it matter what you consider a rogue? thekirbyfake, leader of UOKMB, said himself that they are rogues and were going to go rogue on someone.

[13:29] <Mandolus> ok but kirby flat out admitted that they were going to go rogue on someone, their intention was to rogue out and burn their warchests then quit

[13:30] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> They did not however do the first move

[13:30] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> they were hit by GOONS

[13:30] <nippy[GOONS]> alright, I'm skipping out on this. I can't conduct actual diplomacy if there's a crowd of people puffing chests.

[13:30] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> they may have chosen someone else to rogue

03[13:30] * nippy[GOONS] () has left #Peggy

01[13:30] <Sardonic[GOONS]> What part of "none of this matters" are you people not getting.

03[13:30] * dalstrs () has joined #Peggy

03[13:30] * dalstrs was kicked by Peggy_Sue|UPN (Peggy_Sue|UPN)

03[13:30] * dalstrs () has joined #Peggy

01[13:30] <Sardonic[GOONS]> they are at war with us, we will continue to attack them until we get our money

[13:30] <Beefspari[GOONS]> The raid happened two months before all of UOKMB declared onus. They never made any attempts at diplomacy or discussing the raid.

[13:30] <NakedTime[uPN]> you expect us to bend over and take it balls deep cause you say so???

[13:30] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> who are you dalstrs

[13:31] <Beefspari[GOONS]> He's GOONS gov

01[13:31] <Sardonic[GOONS]> yes, I do. Because we are in the right here.

[13:31] <NakedTime[uPN]> in your view you are

[13:31] <Beefspari[GOONS]> NakedTime, if you don't want to pay to take in people who were just involved in a nuclear war with another alliance, then don't accept them into yours.

[13:31] <NakedTime[uPN]> but there is more then one view, a legit middle ground should be involved

[13:31] <Mandolus> but they never tried to resolve anything diplomatically, they waited months and then declared a self-admitted rogue war

[13:31] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> Nippy had the best angle to take here. To talk nicely to one another

[13:31] <dalstrs> Frankly I think 15 mil is the middle ground, we got 90 mil for other nuke rogues

[13:32] <Beefspari[GOONS]> I think 15m is a good middle-ground considering we usually ask for 90m for stuff Methrage does and the UOKMB guys probably did hundreds of millions in all the nukes they threw.

[13:32] <NakedTime[uPN]> there is nothing that has occured in CN that says members leaving an AA have to pay reps after a war... only people who have kept there AA were ever held to reps

[13:32] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> did you see my last pm to you Beef?

[13:32] <NakedTime[uPN]> do you know of an example showing otherwise?

[13:32] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> Exactly Naked

[13:32] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> that is the trouble in part

[13:32] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> GOONS does not see UOKMB as an alliance

[13:33] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> therefore members leaving in peace mode during war are not treated the way the rest of the planet would treat them

[13:33] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> now

[13:33] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> Beef,

[13:33] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> did you read my last query to you?\

[13:33] <Beefspari[GOONS]> That's bull, they can't just nuke rogue on us and then change AAs and avoid all responsibility. I doubt you'll find many people who agree.

[13:33] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> [11:39] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> Would you take this suggestion to Sardonic and your gov please?

[13:33] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> [11:40] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> for the 3 UOKMB nations we have, we agreed to pay 15 million for two, .. for the third how about add up there infra costs for what remains and pay it to ZI

[13:33] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> That is not bull.

[13:34] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> It is your opinion of a war. You look at them as not an alliance

[13:34] <Mandolus> Peggy_Sue|UPN, what do you think about the fact that UOKMB themselves admit to being rogues?

[13:34] <Beefspari[GOONS]> The only thing that matters is you're accepting enemies of ours. If you want them that badly, then you can pay for their mistakes. If not, then don't accept them.

[13:34] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> they did not rogue on GOONS in the first place

[13:34] <NakedTime[uPN]> that is a fair middle ground, considering we both have such separate views and both willing to back them

[13:34] <Beefspari[GOONS]> I don't see any point in discussing this further.

[13:34] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> goons hit them pre emptively

[13:34] <cora|usn|> do they admit on being I meant to type rogue but typed rouge insteads on GOONS speciffcally

[13:34] <Beefspari[GOONS]> Pay for their mistakes, or give them back to us.

[13:34] <Beefspari[GOONS]> You can answer by Friday.

[13:34] <tanglerat> I've never admitted that!

03[13:34] * Beefspari[GOONS] () has left #Peggy

[13:34] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> read my <removed> querry Beef

[13:34] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> I pasted it here too

[13:34] <cora|usn|> otherwise it looks lot like GOONS setting themselves ip as the police force of CN

[13:35] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> <removed>

[13:35] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> Sardonic

01[13:35] <Sardonic[GOONS]> We will get our justice. Be it in money or their flesh.

01[13:35] <Sardonic[GOONS]> what is your decision

[13:35] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> how can people talk when Beef just cuts out with a last word like it is law

[13:35] <NakedTime[uPN]> were offering a middle ground

01[13:35] <Sardonic[GOONS]> and we're not having it

[13:35] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> did you read my <removed> log paste

01[13:35] <Sardonic[GOONS]> the truth is not "somewhere in the middle"

[13:35] <NakedTime[uPN]> we wont be bent over in this matter

[13:36] <dalstrs> so by your logic, I can form a small alliance, declare on upn, launch nules for a week, then go to another alliance and not be persued by upn?

[13:36] <NakedTime[uPN]> and were not someone you can just walk over cause your view is the only on planet bob

[13:36] <NakedTime[uPN]> we offered a good middle ground

01[13:36] <Sardonic[GOONS]> what are you going to do? attack our members when we take our justice from our valid war targets?

[13:36] <Canfor|UPN> if they launched nukes first Dal that I would agree with you

[13:36] <Canfor|UPN> but you hit them first

[13:36] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> STOP

[13:36] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> read this

[13:36] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> [17:39] <Beefspari[GOONS]> When's better?

[13:36] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> [17:40] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I will ask for a time tomorrow

[13:36] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> [17:40] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> evening hours

[13:36] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> [11:39] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> Hello

[13:36] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> [11:39] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> Would you take this suggestion to Sardonic and your gov please?

[13:36] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> [11:40] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> for the 3 UOKMB nations we have, we agreed to pay 15 million for two, .. for the third how about add up there infra costs for what remains and pay it to ZI

[13:36] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> Read that last <removed> line <removed>

01[13:36] <Sardonic[GOONS]> yes I see your compromise, and we're not interested

01[13:36] <Sardonic[GOONS]> 15m for each

[13:36] <dalstrs> if it is 15 mil to zi then we will agree

[13:37] <NakedTime[uPN]> you get there remaining infra cost in reps

[13:37] <NakedTime[uPN]> why not just have them delete there infra to ZI then?

[13:37] <NakedTime[uPN]> then we'll buy it back

01[13:37] <Sardonic[GOONS]> not interested, 15m or they will be obliterated.

[13:37] <NakedTime[uPN]> or were you guys gunna try and PZI them after all that between you and NPO over that ugly procedure? <- what lol

[13:38] <dalstrs> not pzi eog

01[13:38] <Sardonic[GOONS]> it's not PZI

01[13:38] <Sardonic[GOONS]> we can win that debate, don't be foolish enough to start it <- this is true, it's not PZI if they have an easy out, in this case, the mercy board.

[13:38] <NakedTime[uPN]> really how does it work then

[13:38] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> Foolish? Debate? You don't debate. You dictate

[13:38] <Canfor|UPN> ok... you can chase a nation in a alliance that you decided to start a war with?

[13:38] <NakedTime[uPN]> wait I wanna hear this

[13:38] <Canfor|UPN> after you decided to start the alliance

[13:39] <NakedTime[uPN]> how does EoG have any difference from PZI

[13:39] <Canfor|UPN> wait let me rephraise that

01[13:39] <Sardonic[GOONS]> look bottom line, if you refuse to pay, we will attack the former UOKMB members. If you try to stop us, our allies (and us when we get done with the runts were fighting now) will demolish you

01[13:39] <Sardonic[GOONS]> there is no debate

[13:39] <Canfor|UPN> sounds like a threat

01[13:39] <Sardonic[GOONS]> only a threat if you intend to defend them

[13:39] <NakedTime[uPN]> me thinks there doing PZI too

[13:39] <Canfor|UPN> I never had a opinion on GOONs

[13:40] <Canfor|UPN> but I've made one up now

[13:40] <NakedTime[uPN]> CN community will call it PZI regardless of what you call it after screen shots and logs of this... If in practice it is the same, the name dont matter

01[13:40] <Sardonic[GOONS]> that's great dude, just give us our money and we can be on our way, and you can have your terrible new members.

[13:40] <Canfor|UPN> Sar... answer what I asked you in Private... I'll ask it again here

[13:41] <Canfor|UPN> so if I went I meant to type rogue but typed rouge instead on GOONs cause I didn't recognize them as a alliance,,, then that member went to a alliance that I do recognize, I would have every right to continue to attack them?

[13:41] <Canfor|UPN> or extort the alliance?

[13:41] <Canfor|UPN> after I started the war in the first place

[13:41] <Canfor|UPN> for

[13:41] <Canfor|UPN> "nuclear Testing" purposes

01[13:41] <Sardonic[GOONS]> first off it's GOONS not GOONs

[13:42] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> that is what happened. yes

[13:42] <Canfor|UPN> sry my mistake

01[13:42] <Sardonic[GOONS]> secondly, if you have balls enough, yeah

[13:42] <NakedTime[uPN]> what is EoG

[13:42] <NakedTime[uPN]> what is the practice

[13:42] <Canfor|UPN> or if you think ur untouchable

[13:42] <dalstrs> Honestly we don't care what you think, you have our terms, you can accept them or not.

[13:42] <NakedTime[uPN]> what is EoG

[13:42] <Canfor|UPN> how long till they expire?

01[13:42] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I'm done talking about this, consult our constitution if you want to know what EoG is

01[13:42] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I have class in 10 minutes anyway

[13:42] <NakedTime[uPN]> link>

Now I'll be the first to admit, I might have been a bit harsh, but when dealing with stupidity such as this can be extremely grating, and I was having a bad day. I simply could not believe that there was any debate about this, that somehow we were the bad guys for not wanting to let people who rogued on us go in peace.

I went to class and came back later, I had heard from other gov that the issue was being resolved. I later obtained the logs of what happened after I left, sadly it got a whole lot more hilarious after I left, I will highlight the good parts.

[14:42] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I have class in 10 minutes anyway

[14:42] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> Enemy of GOONS eh

[14:42] * Sardonic[GOONS] () has left #Peggy

[14:43] <NakedTime[uPN]> good to know

[14:43] <Mandolus> here

[14:44] <Mandolus> http://cngoons.com/Board/index.php?topic=3031.0

[14:44] <Mandolus> for your convenience

[14:44] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> we've done all we can here.

[14:44] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> let's close this room

[14:44] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> Sardonic lays down his law

[14:44] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> and this is the picture of the new Pandora's Box bloc

[14:44] <Mandolus> I just wanted to know why you guys wanted to take them in D:

[14:45] * cora|usn| () has left #Peggy

[14:45] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> I jsut want GOONs and friends to stop destroying nations

[14:45] <NakedTime[uPN]> <removed> this <removeD>

[14:45] <@Peggy_Sue|UPN> yep

[14:45] * @Peggy_Sue|UPN () has left #Peggy

[14:45] <NakedTime[uPN]> I read it

[14:45] <Mandolus> well I ate 5 nukes from UOKMB nations

[14:45] <NakedTime[uPN]> there is no difference between it and PZI

[14:45] <NakedTime[uPN]> not a damn thing

[14:45] <Mandolus> it's not that hard for someone to get off EoG if they want to

[14:46] <NakedTime[uPN]> not according to your wiki

[14:46] <Mandolus> TheKirbyFake had a very reasonable term for his peace

[14:46] <NakedTime[uPN]> they can be kept on for any reason

[14:46] <Mandolus> he was almost granted it but he didn't bother to do it

[14:46] <NakedTime[uPN]> also expecting nations as small as there's to pay such a high price is rediculous

[14:46] <Mandolus> his peace terms had no cost whatsoever

[14:46] <NakedTime[uPN]> your only asking that cause you think well bend over and pay it to ya

[14:46] <Mandolus> give me a second here

[14:46] <dalstrs> for nations that can't afford reps we usually give other terms

[14:47] <NakedTime[uPN]> so what cause they applied for a bigger alliance there reps grow?

[14:47] <Mandolus> Kirby asked us for peace, and his terms were as follows:

[14:48] <Mandolus> Draw an 18 panel comic on two different subjects, or make GOONS trading cards

[14:48] <dalstrs> no, they never came to us for peace, and the one who did didn't do the terms. If you are bailing them out then that is the price

[14:48] <Mandolus> He didn't have to pay us a dime to get peace but he never bothered to complete the terms

[14:48] <Mandolus> and Kirby was the ringleader

[14:49] <NakedTime[uPN]> they don;t have to come to you for peace, there AA was warring with you not individual members...

[14:49] <NakedTime[uPN]> plus you are asking for more reps because they are applying for an alliance that could afford it?

[14:49] <Mandolus> He asked for individual peace specifically, he had the option to request peace for the whole AA

[14:49] <dalstrs> It's like talking to a brick wall mandolus

[14:49] <NakedTime[uPN]> if you asked for something more reasonable we would be able to find a diplomatic middle ground

[14:50] <NakedTime[uPN]> like paying for there infra.... that is in all respects ZI and what rogues get

[14:50] <NakedTime[uPN]> so we are diplomatic enough to take your view of them being a rogue into the situation

[14:50] * Peggy_Sue|UPN () has joined #Peggy

[14:50] <dalstrs> remember when someone paid for methrage's peace it was 90 million, we are being generous at 15 million. These guys have the same status to us as methrage does

[14:50] <Mandolus> Peggy I'm going to paste this for you because it's pretty important

[14:50] <NakedTime[uPN]> asking for more then that cause there EoG is essentually related to PZI more then anything and in no way shows them as being treated as normal rogues by you guys

[14:50] <Canfor|UPN> how... when you guys started the war?

[14:51] <Mandolus> <Mandolus> Kirby asked us for peace, and his terms were as follows:

[14:51] <Mandolus> <Mandolus> Draw an 18 panel comic on two different subjects, or make GOONS trading cards

[14:51] <tanglerat> Ahem - just for the record

[14:51] <NakedTime[uPN]> your trying to make some cash cause you think we are just gunna fold

[14:51] <Mandolus> NakedTime[uPN], Kirby had a chance to get off EoG without paying a cent in reps, all he had to do was make a comic or some trading cards in MSPaint

[14:51] <dalstrs> actually we don't care if you pay or not

[14:52] <NakedTime[uPN]> bet if I made an OWF post asking people the difference between your practice of EoG and compare it to PZI that NPO threatened you with most of CN will see them as no different

[14:52] <tanglerat> I never considered myself or my alliance as roques. We were pre-emptively attacked and nuked based on hearsay, and we fought back.

[14:52] <Mandolus> and he was specifically given drawing terms because he had made comics in the past

[14:52] <tanglerat> That is my reality. Yours may differ.

[14:52] <NakedTime[uPN]> you get no peace and keep getting hit till either you quit or do some crazy <removed> we ask you to do

[14:52] <Mandolus> <Mandolus> and he was specifically given drawing terms because he had made comics in the past

[14:53] <Mandolus> it wasnt some outlandish thing, it was something he clearly already enjoyed doing

[14:53] <NakedTime[uPN]> 18 pannels is some work

[14:53] <NakedTime[uPN]> in general rogues are asked for reps, or ZI's

[14:53] <NakedTime[uPN]> not both

[14:53] <Mandolus> he did hundreds of millions of dongs in damages

[14:53] <NakedTime[uPN]> that is generally refered to as PZI

[14:53] <NakedTime[uPN]> so?

[14:53] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> in a war you started

[14:53] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> you know

[14:53] <NakedTime[uPN]> we;ve had that done by rogues

[14:53] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> if you start something you don't blame the victim

[14:53] <NakedTime[uPN]> still we let them go with ZI

[14:53] <NakedTime[uPN]> or reps

[14:54] <Canfor|UPN> and on top of that

[14:54] <NakedTime[uPN]> EoG IS IN ALL RESPECT PZI

[14:54] <Canfor|UPN> how did they get the oppurtunity to get to Peace Mode?

[14:54] <Mandolus> they did get nuked first, yes, but they never bothered to approach us diplomatically, they just waited a few months and launched an attack

[14:54] <NakedTime[uPN]> cause they failed at staggering

[14:54] <NakedTime[uPN]> if you get nuked that tends to end diplomacy

[14:54] <Mandolus> the diplomacy never started

[14:54] <dalstrs> You aren't going to change our minds. our terms are what they are. I believe beefspari said you have till friday to answer. Nothing else needs to be said until them

[15:01] * Peggy_Sue|UPN is now known as Peggy_Sue|AFK

[15:01] <NakedTime[uPN]> well at least we see eye to eye

[15:03] <Mandolus> NakedTime[uPN], we aren't about PZI

[15:03] <Mandolus> there are generally two ways off EoG - pay us or entertain us

[15:03] <Mandolus> drawing a comic in MSpaint takes 5-10 minutes max

[15:03] <tanglerat> Here, mandalous, tell me this:

[15:05] <tanglerat> when you guys got wind of what uokmb were discussing internally, why didn't you try diplomacy at that point, rather that nukes?

[15:05] <Mandolus> I can't answer that as I am not privy to that information

[15:05] <Mandolus> but I think the more important question is why UOKMB didn't bother diplomacy in the first place

[15:07] <tanglerat> we didn't try diplomacy because we got nuked. Seemed like a simple enough declaration of intent to us.

[15:08] <tanglerat> Since you're not privy to that info, perhaps you could be a dear and ask around your alliance mates? cos i'd be fascinated to know.

[15:08] <NakedTime[uPN]> that is PZI

[15:08] <NakedTime[uPN]> these nations cant afford to pay 15 million each

[15:08] <Mandolus> then spend 10 minutes drawing a comic

[15:08] <NakedTime[uPN]> standard for CN is ZI or reps... you don't get more then that

[15:09] <NakedTime[uPN]> sure you let them all off the hook I'll draw you a funny comic

[15:09] <Canfor|UPN> count me in for a second comic

[15:09] <NakedTime[uPN]> past that what your asking is far outside the standard for CN in how rogues or enemy alliance members are dealt with

[15:10] <Mandolus> we only allow members to seek peace for themselves or alliance leaders to seek peace for the alliance, as far as I know

[15:11] <Mandolus> but hey I'm not the High War Adjuticator

[15:13] <Mandolus> but I do believe that this was already discussed with our gov

[15:14] <NakedTime[uPN]> point I am making is CN community will not know the difference between the current GOONS from NPO a year or so ago

[15:14] <Mandolus> we don't put people on EoG for just anything

[15:14] <NakedTime[uPN]> your terms are to the point of ridiculousness that PZI is related too

[15:15] <Mandolus> generally the only way to get on the list is to go rogue on us or aid someone we are at war with

[15:15] <NakedTime[uPN]> wars against another alliance and even against rogues don't warrent PZI

[15:15] <NakedTime[uPN]> If I were to call for PZI on a rogue, the WHOLE cn community would come bashing me, and try to have me hung

[15:15] <Mandolus> there is a very easy way to avoid becoming an EoG

[15:15] <NakedTime[uPN]> PZI and method like it are unacceptable

[15:15] <NakedTime[uPN]> same with PZI, don't attack someone

[15:16] <Mandolus> the difference between us is that you guys seem to think drawing a picture or writing a poem or short story is a big deal and we don't

[15:16] <NakedTime[uPN]> fact is, if it is PZI like there is no justification minus them maybe hacking your forums to deletion... maybe then

[15:16] <NakedTime[uPN]> your not asking that though

[15:16] <Mandolus> our terms are honestly not supposed to be demeaning or insulting

[15:16] <NakedTime[uPN]> your asking for more money in reps then each member is worth in infra

[15:16] <Mandolus> it's just entertainment for everyone involved

[15:16] <NakedTime[uPN]> greater then ZI = PZI

[15:17] <Mandolus> Permanent ZI = PZI

[15:17] <Mandolus> NakedTime[uPN], ONE (1) UOKMB naion came to us seeking peace

[15:17] <NakedTime[uPN]> ahhh so what NPO wanted from you guys wasn't PZI?

[15:17] <Mandolus> he was given very reasonable non money terms

[15:17] <Mandolus> he rejected them

[15:17] <NakedTime[uPN]> they just wanted to keep you at a low infra till you gave them the ridiculous reps they wanted

[15:18] <Mandolus> you must be talking about Neutral Shoving?

[15:18] <Mandolus> different alliance, and before my time

[15:18] <NakedTime[uPN]> paying more then your infra is worth is PZI

[15:18] <NakedTime[uPN]> you get reps or ZI... that is the standard

[15:18] <NakedTime[uPN]> we offered to pay all there infra costs, which ends up being more for you anyway since you don't have to spend a penny bring it down

[15:19] <Mandolus> sorry if we don't want to be the standard CN alliance same as everyone else

[15:19] <NakedTime[uPN]> at one point in time goons cried out for help because of these things

[15:19] <NakedTime[uPN]> and CN came together and destroyed NPO and it's hegemony

[15:19] <Mandolus> again, I'm going to try to explain, that our mercy terms are not supposed to be horrible demeaning things

[15:20] <NakedTime[uPN]> oh I would be ok with something funny like giving graphics

[15:20] <Mandolus> it's just a fun little creative activity that entertains everyone involved

[15:20] <NakedTime[uPN]> but the current terms are simply extreme given the situation and the normal diplomatic resolution it leads too

[15:21] <NakedTime[uPN]> 15 mill per member, when on average there infra is worth around 6 mill each.... no happening that way

[15:21] <NakedTime[uPN]> we even bent and offered to pay 15 x 2, and just the infra on the last one

[15:21] <tanglerat> except for the guy who fees horribly demeaned

[15:21] <Mandolus> I had to do a mercy term once you know

[15:21] <Mandolus> it's really not that bad

[15:21] <NakedTime[uPN]> we did our best for a diplomatic resolution and hope for a better resolution then conflict

[15:21] <Mandolus> and generally terms for GOONS members are far harsher than those for non GOONS

[15:22] <NakedTime[uPN]> how much did you have to pay?

[15:22] <Mandolus> nothing

[15:22] <NakedTime[uPN]> well then there is a major difference between you situation and the current one

[15:22] <Mandolus> I had to make an amazon.com shopping list worth $100,000 +/- $100

[15:22] <Mandolus> of nothing but worthless crap

[15:23] <dalstrs> it was pretty epic

[15:23] <NakedTime[uPN]> sounds more reasonable then our current terms

[15:23] <Mandolus> your terms are because you are seeking peace for them

[15:23] <NakedTime[uPN]> give us reasonable terms and we will hash it out, but currently it's looking to much like PZI and we will never stand for that

[15:24] <Mandolus> Kirby came to us and was given non monetary terms but he rejected them

[15:24] <NakedTime[uPN]> did you get something other then peace for your terms that weren't cash?

[15:24] <Mandolus> no, sorry, you misunderstand me

[15:24] <Mandolus> GOONS nations are forced to do mercy board terms when they screw up, I wasn't at war

[15:24] <NakedTime[uPN]> kirby is not our problem now, he is not a UPN member

[15:24] <Mandolus> and they are generally harsher than the terms we give for non GOONS

[15:25] <NakedTime[uPN]> something funny would be nice, however the cash terms are unacceptable as they stand since they go far beyond there individual worth in infrastructor

[15:25] <Mandolus> see, we don't make anyone do something we wouldn't do ourselves

[15:26] <NakedTime[uPN]> which in general shows you looking for more then standard reps, and more then standard ZI... which in general is considered PZI...

[15:26] <Mandolus> 15m each is very reasonable

[15:26] <NakedTime[uPN]> EoG and PZI are no different... make your attacker happy or he never stops attacking you

[15:26] <Mandolus> we don't take rogues lightly

[15:26] <NakedTime[uPN]> can you pay 15 million reasonably with 600 infra?

[15:26] <NakedTime[uPN]> if they had around 4-5k infra I could see that

[15:27] <Mandolus> we were offered $180m for the freedom of Kerberos Nexus

[15:27] <NakedTime[uPN]> however at there level that cost is more then if they would have to spend if they deleted all there infra and started from ZI

[15:27] <NakedTime[uPN]> lol that is retarded... 2 man AA was willing to pay that much

[15:28] <NakedTime[uPN]> We'll fight a losing war before we will be bent over for 180 mill

[15:28] <Mandolus> well we aren't asking you for 180 mil

[15:28] <NakedTime[uPN]> nah your asking for 45 mill for about 10 mill worth of infra

[15:28] <NakedTime[uPN]> still fairly outlandish

[15:29] <NakedTime[uPN]> PZI

[15:29] <Mandolus> any of them are welcome to seek peace for themselves at our Mercy Board

[15:29] <NakedTime[uPN]> and if it goes to the OWF that is pretty much how the community would see it. Would see it as the bigger alliance trying might makes right to get there way

[15:30] <dalstrs> http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=91933&view=findpost&p=2446737

[15:30] <dalstrs> they declared because they were getting bored

[15:30] <dalstrs> that makes them rogues

[15:30] <dalstrs> end of story

[15:31] <Mandolus> I wanted to find that post but I was too lazy :3

[15:32] <NakedTime[uPN]> rogues get ZI or reps, not more then that

[15:32] <NakedTime[uPN]> that is called PZI

[15:32] <NakedTime[uPN]> dont matter if you call it EoG, CN will see it as PZI

[15:32] <NakedTime[uPN]> yes and he does admit to himself going rogue... thats cool

[15:32] <NakedTime[uPN]> he is not in the upn lol

[15:32] <Mandolus> PZI is Permanent Zero Infrastructure

[15:33] <NakedTime[uPN]> or anything exceeding ZI

[15:33] <Mandolus> what about "write a short story for freedom" is permanent?

[15:33] <Mandolus> no, you're trying to twist the definition of something to what you want it to fit

[15:33] <NakedTime[uPN]> nah asking for more cash then there infra is worth is akin to PZI

[15:33] <Mandolus> we aren't asking THEM for 15m each

[15:33] <NakedTime[uPN]> I don't care about what terms the guy that isn't in our alliance got offered

[15:33] <Mandolus> we're demanding 15m each from YOU

[15:33] <NakedTime[uPN]> he is no concern of mine

[15:34] <NakedTime[uPN]> ahhh so if they just go ZI you will be done with them then?

[15:34] <tanglerat> no, we formed uokmb because we were getting bored. We declared on goons cos they nuked us

[15:34] <tanglerat> here, dalstrs, I'll ask you the same question i asked mandolus:

[15:34] <tanglerat> when you guys got wind of what uokmb were discussing internally, why didn't you try diplomacy at that point, rather that nukes?

[15:34] <Mandolus> like I said if they want individual peace they have to go through the normal channel of our mercy board

[15:35] <NakedTime[uPN]> you get ZI or reps from rogues

[15:35] <Mandolus> if you want their peace it's 15m each

[15:35] <NakedTime[uPN]> not both... that tends to be seen as PZI

[15:35] <dalstrs> I wasn't in gov at the time, but i assume the answer is we like war, and if you have a beef with us then you should come talk to us about it

[15:35] <NakedTime[uPN]> nah, they should be able to delete there infra to 0 and be free

[15:36] <NakedTime[uPN]> standard punishment for rogues...

[15:36] <Mandolus> GOONS isn't a standard alliance

[15:36] <NakedTime[uPN]> oh what was NPO then?

[15:37] <NakedTime[uPN]> is it fair what they demanded from GOONS?

[15:37] <Mandolus> Neutral Shoving was a different alliance I can't comment on that

[15:37] <NakedTime[uPN]> or are they a standard alliance and not permitted to for such things.

[15:37] <NakedTime[uPN]> ya... didn't think there would be an answer there

[15:37] <Mandolus> I'm sure if NPO demanded that Neutral Shoving write a bunch of short stories for freedom most of them would be fine with that

[15:38] <Mandolus> I wouldn't see a problem personally

[15:38] <NakedTime[uPN]> how about 45 mill for every 10 mill of infra in your alliance, or not be let off the target list

[15:38] <NakedTime[uPN]> think they have a term for that

[15:38] <NakedTime[uPN]> it's called PZI

[15:39] <Mandolus> you're right it is, now how is that the same as our EoG terms?

[15:40] <dalstrs> they question is why we should let them go easily when they have shown they have no issue declaring on goons and nuking us. if the terms are easy, they will just build back up and do it again. That is what methrage did

[15:40] <tanglerat> dalstrs, can i suggest you make enquiries at your end as to the circumstances regarding the start of all of this?

[15:40] <tanglerat> We hadn't decided on a course of action against anyone, never mind goons, before we got nuked. A diplomatic contact from goons would easily have shifted our focus.

[15:40] <Mandolus> Kirby's post seems to indicate differently

[15:42] <NakedTime[uPN]> thedestro does that too

[15:42] <NakedTime[uPN]> couple months ago I believe

[15:42] <NakedTime[uPN]> ZI is the punishment for rogues

[15:43] <NakedTime[uPN]> past that is just behaving like NPO did a year and a half ago

[15:43] <Mandolus> NakedTime[uPN], you're basically saying "this is the standard and anything that deviates from that is PZI and exactly like NPO" right?

[15:44] <NakedTime[uPN]> no, anything passed the norm of what a nation in that situation can pay based on there infra cost

[15:44] <NakedTime[uPN]> or the cost of them being put the ZI

[15:45] <NakedTime[uPN]> say... IF I beat your nation down to 500 infra, then said you have to pay me 15 million for peace

[15:45] <NakedTime[uPN]> while fighting me, it will take you forever to come up with the money, it would be cheaper to just go to ZI

[15:46] <NakedTime[uPN]> but if your still kept on a targeting list after the point of ZI that is what is refereed too as PZI

[15:46] <Mandolus> that's not the same thing, that would be like if I rogued on you, got beat down to 500 infra, and then went to Legion and you demanded Legion pay 15m

[15:46] <NakedTime[uPN]> asking for more then they are worth as individuals is the equivalent

[15:46] <NakedTime[uPN]> that would be the same situation

[15:46] <tanglerat> ....er, because some of us are in another alliance now, and we follow their orders?

[15:46] <NakedTime[uPN]> an out of portion request

[15:47] <Mandolus> I get what you're saying but you're kind of ignoring a few facts here

[15:47] <dalstrs> tanglerat: what difference does it make, you attacked us, if you had a problem with us you should have come to us. your groups post make it clear you all were going to attack someone.

[15:47] <NakedTime[uPN]> we would either ask for the nation back to ZI or request his infra in reps rounded to the highest 3 mill

[15:48] <Mandolus> we don't care if he gets to ZI or not

[15:48] <NakedTime[uPN]> requesting more then ZI is worth is ridiculous

[15:48] <dalstrs> [14:48:06] <Mandolus> we don't care if he gets to ZI or not

[15:49] <dalstrs> this is why it is not a pzi list

[15:49] <dalstrs> eog's don't always have wars

[15:49] <NakedTime[uPN]> interesting, but if there on a continual attack list then they can just be attacked till they quit the game

[15:49] <dalstrs> this is how these guys got to apply to you guys with out having a war

[15:49] <Mandolus> until they bother to seek peace

[15:49] <NakedTime[uPN]> so it is essentually build till your worth our newest members raiding you till you quit

[15:49] <dalstrs> but they are free game for anyone in our alliance that wants to attack them

[15:49] <NakedTime[uPN]> that sounds like PZI

[15:50] <tanglerat> dalstrs, that can be turned around: YOU attacked US, if you had a problem with us you shoud have come to us. Why didn't you? Heard a rumour, couldn't be bothered to check it out, they're only 8 players anyway, what's the worst that could happen? Attack them, nuke them, don't even bother talking to them.

[15:50] <dalstrs> you aren't an alliance, you were a tech raid

[15:51] <NakedTime[uPN]> that ridiculous that people tech raided are expected to bend over

[15:51] <Mandolus> there are ways to get off EoG but it's not just "ok I'm done now here's the 500k my infra is worth"

[15:52] <NakedTime[uPN]> ya that's called PZI...

[15:52] <Mandolus> no it's called post on the mercy board and show us you want to get off EoG

[15:52] <NakedTime[uPN]> I've got more then enough evidence in these logs for people to see this for what it is

[15:52] <Mandolus> everyone knows what EoG is

[15:52] <NakedTime[uPN]> then do what you say or be continually attacked?

[15:53] <NakedTime[uPN]> hmmm smells like PZI... looks like it... bet it tastes like it too...

[15:53] <Mandolus> hey guess what, if you don't want to write a poem you can just not rogue on GOONS

[15:53] <NakedTime[uPN]> ZI or reps... that is pretty much it...

[15:53] <dalstrs> all I hear is a bunch of "waaaa, meanie goons not giving me what I want!"

[15:54] <NakedTime[uPN]> all I hear is "waaa UPN wont bend over for us cause were bigger"

[15:54] <dalstrs> you don't get it

[15:54] <NakedTime[uPN]> wow... sounds like NPO and GOONS a year and a half ago... <removed> go figure that one

[15:54] <dalstrs> we don't care if you pay

[15:54] <NakedTime[uPN]> oh I get it

[15:54] <NakedTime[uPN]> like I said before at least we see eye to eye

[15:54] <NakedTime[uPN]> don;t mean we agree with each other, we just know were each other stands

[15:55] <Mandolus> NakedTime[uPN], the 15m each is for UPN to get UOKMB peace, not for UOKMB to get peace

[15:55] <dalstrs> I don't believe goons and NPO had a war a year ago

02[15:55] * tanglerat () Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client )

[15:55] <NakedTime[uPN]> there was something about GOONS being PZI'd and NPO getting some crazy amount of reps for threatening it

[15:56] <NakedTime[uPN]> Karma war I believe.

[15:56] <Mandolus> GOONS didn't exist around Karma?

[15:56] <dalstrs> GOONS have been around under a year and a half

[15:56] <NakedTime[uPN]> the current one

[15:56] <dalstrs> we havethe old ones disbanded about 3 years ago

[15:56] <NakedTime[uPN]> same thing in most people's eye's

[15:57] <dalstrs> well they need to get their eyes checked then

[15:57] <NakedTime[uPN]> don't we all, reality is only viable from one point and no point is the same... only natural there is so much conflict I guess

[15:58] <NakedTime[uPN]> anyway, have a nice day. Sure we will finish these talks soon

[15:58] <Mandolus> Neutral Shoving was long gone by Karma and was a different alliance

PZI, NPO, Rogues oh my! The misconception that the EoG list is a PZI list lives on in the minds of the deranged. What could possibly be permanent about having to do a comic or short story for peace? Nothing! It is far easier than having to shell out the megabucks most alliances force people to pay (of course we still have to reach monetary arrangements for people unwilling to do mercy).

I received a message from peggy later on.

[21:56] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> hello

01[21:59] <Sardonic[GOONS]> hello, I believe beefspari worked out a payment plan?

[21:59] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I don't know where that offer of 1 million 'reps' came from. it is not acceptable.

[22:00] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I told our nation to not take the aid

[22:00] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> and I don't know who in our gov 'agreed' to it. would you happen to have a log?

01[22:00] <Sardonic[GOONS]> no, I have no idea

01[22:00] <Sardonic[GOONS]> it was probably the raided nation

01[22:00] <Sardonic[GOONS]> who requested it

01[22:00] <Sardonic[GOONS]> or something

01[22:01] <Sardonic[GOONS]> you can sum the damages if you want a more concrete rep but at that level you're pretty much just burning daylight, no way it could have been more than 1m, or around it at least.

01[22:19] <Sardonic[GOONS]> So have you reached a consensus?

Here is where Peggy raised the false issue of the mis-sent 1m, and I ended it with what I said there instantly (or so I hoped anyway, as it was such a stupid non-issue). The members had arranged their own deal apparently behind both their government's backs. Peggy chose to believe that we were trying to weasel our way out of paying a higher amount, and was being pressured by the before blogged about idiots in the WCE.

I messaged later on to follow up on the resolution, having heard of the ODN arrangement.

01[23:08] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Okay so this is or is not resolved?

01[23:09] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I don't need to tell you that any unprovoked attacks will be met with full retaliation, so I'm hoping we can just have everyone calm the hell down, peace out, and go on our merry ways.

[23:09] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> oh stuff it

[23:10] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> threatening me does nothing

01[23:10] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I'm not threatening you, I'm telling you. This is over. Do not attack us.

[23:10] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> we weren't going to

[23:10] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> we would defend

[23:10] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> but we were not going to aggress

[23:10] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> unlike you

01[23:11] <Sardonic[GOONS]> whatever

[23:11] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> and don't talk to me that way and expect me to take it

01[23:11] <Sardonic[GOONS]> You can leave the indignity at the door, you're lucky you have an ally as good as ODN.

01[23:11] <Sardonic[GOONS]> you don't deserve an ally as good as them.

[23:11] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> <removed> you'

01[23:12] <Sardonic[GOONS]> whatever, just keep your nations off ours and this can be the last we talk for a good long while.

One of my favorite logs from that day, really. I don't think I've had the opportunity to burn somebody as sickly as that before.

Today all of this is history, highly amusing history.

I received this from a friend:

<Peggy_Sue|UPN> UPN and goons were having a stand-off

<Peggy_Sue|UPN> I refused to send the money while they are at war with Ninjas and Fnka

<Peggy_Sue|UPN> they demanded it anyway

<Peggy_Sue|UPN> ODN stepped in and said they'll send money to nations that aren't fighting and will monitor to be sure they don't fight

<Peggy_Sue|UPN> never ever believe that what you read on owf is the whole truth

<Peggy_Sue|UPN> or even half truth

The truth is self evident my dear.

<Peggy_Sue|UPN> someone went into that coalition channel with the intent to spread the word

<Peggy_Sue|UPN> that always happens when one isn't careful who they invite in

<Peggy_Sue|UPN> I didn't manage it

<Peggy_Sue|UPN> I invited nobody in

<Peggy_Sue|UPN> so it is not my baby to burp

Just in case anyone needed any more evidence UPN was being put up to this.

[00:01] <"X"> What do you think of PB

[00:01] <"X"> :P

[00:01] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> that will be dangerous when you finish forming it

[00:01] <"X"> What do you mean finish forming it?

[00:02] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> is iFOK going to be in it?

One of the larger problems with UPN is that it is run by somebody who appaently never has a complete set of information about anything.

[00:04] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> ah. ok

[00:04] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> there is a mystery about the 7tyh alliance

[00:04] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> it is rumored that MK isn't going to be in now

Ah yes, the legend of the 7tyh alliance, truly a great unsolved mythtry of our tyhme.

[00:27] <"X"> WHat do you think of Schaterman

[00:28] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> he has experience

[00:28] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> I don't know him well

[00:28] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> RV was in TPF a while

[00:28] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> but didn't stay long

[00:28] <"X"> Ahh what you think of RV?

[00:28] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> so I don't know him well either

[00:29] <"X"> Hmm

[00:29] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> seriously

[00:29] <"X"> Anyone you dont like?

[00:29] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> my TPF days give me more knowledge of world leaders than being on this side of the web recently

Truly TPF is the community college of alliance leadership.

Anyway, I hope everyone has enjoyed these logs, and the previous sets. Hopefully an incident will occur where I will be able to share more logs of this type in the future. Who knows? I might be able to post more sometime in the near future, nearer if you leak logs to me. Thank you and goodnight.

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[00:28] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> RV was in TPF a while

[00:28] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> but didn't stay long

[00:28] <"X"> Ahh what you think of RV?

[00:28] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> so I don't know him well either

This is clearly out of order. This makes no sense. Did Peggy make timeline go caw-caw?

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[00:28] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> RV was in TPF a while

[00:28] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> but didn't stay long

[00:28] <"X"> Ahh what you think of RV?

[00:28] <Peggy_Sue|UPN> so I don't know him well either

This is clearly out of order. This makes no sense. Did Peggy make timeline go caw-caw?

No, it makes perfect sense in context. You are mentioned, and he asks for elaboration.

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Also lol @ Peggy thinking ODN and Polar ties makes her part of the side. I suppose being in TPF for so long really does kind of distort the difference between cannon fodder and core though.

Your allies were significant, not you, and you kind of abused the hell out of them this go around.

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I was hoping to see someone try to make a reasonable argument against GOONS here in the comments but I guess most of the readers of this blog are friends of GOONS.

By the way, for those of you who read these logs and see them go from cordial to shouting fest as soon as Sardonic comes in, keep in mind that it took UPN nearly two weeks to negotiate.

Also, almost immediately after, BAPS contacted us about another UOKMB member that had fled to them after the war. The BAPS representative politely inquired if $15m would be enough to take the nation off our enemy list and we politely agreed. The process took about 2 minutes.

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I was hoping to see someone try to make a reasonable argument against GOONS here in the comments but I guess most of the readers of this blog are friends of GOONS.

I am not a friend of GOONS.

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Eh, Ive got a headache after slogging through that.

Yeah, breaking up some of the dialogue would of helped. It was, however, an interesting read. Genuinely entertaining.

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Yeah, breaking up some of the dialogue would of helped. It was, however, an interesting read. Genuinely entertaining.

I kinda just skimmed through it while thinking "god this is dumb god this is dumb WAIT PEGGY SAID THERE WAS NO AGREEMENT god this is dumb etc."

Then there was this white static-y feeling and I blacked out for a minute.

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I am not a friend of GOONS.

I believe I did say "most", sir.

All the goontears over getting nuked by their raid targets are pretty delicious. Mandolus: "Bawwww! I took 5 nukes off him!"

That's like saying that a pimp is crying as he smacks his girls for not giving him his cut.

Someone nukes us five times, we demand reps. That's not whining. That's laying down the law. I can't even believe the kind of logic you're using.

Edit: Actually, I want to see a movie now where a pimp bawls his eyes out while smacking people. That would be pretty funny.

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Yeah, breaking up some of the dialogue would of helped. It was, however, an interesting read. Genuinely entertaining.

I know it wasn't you earlier, but I just think it's funny that when Sardonic broke the last log up into 20 parts people complained rigorously that he kept splitting it up and now he dumps one big blog entry and you're saying the opposite.

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I know it wasn't you earlier, but I just think it's funny that when Sardonic broke the last log up into 20 parts people complained rigorously that he kept splitting it up and now he dumps one big blog entry and you're saying the opposite.

Personally, I enjoyed seeing the e-mail notification each time Sardonic posted a new blog entry. It was sort of like waiting for a new episode of your favourite show, except this was quicker.

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Wow I feel sorry for GOONS in those talks seriously, the sheer amount of dumbness shown by UPN in those talks would have made me want to DoW on them immediately, I mean harboring rogues and being dumb is valid CB or should be at least -_-

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